Lloyd Comments to the Junks

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by offiss

You site receivers who have all pro QB's, something Lloyd has not come close to, what were Randy Moss's stats last season without a QB? Oakland said he had a chronic knee problem and is not the WR he used to be, I guess they were right he's better than he used to be, the question is why? Could it be the team and the QB? So if there is nothing there in Lloyd why did Gibbs have to have this guy? Sorry but playing in an inept system like San fran, and then coming over to us only to have the likes of Brunell throwing to him doesn't make him a bust, every time I see the guy he's beating his man down field. If you want to say he doesn't fit in, then fine, because that pretty much seems to be whats going on here, but he can't throw the ball to himself.

The stats completely disprove your point about Randy Moss.

In 29 games with Oakland, Moss had 102 catches for 1,558 yards and 11 TDs.

In 45 games with San Francisco, Lloyd had 105 catches for 1,510 yards and 13 TDs.

In other words, with equally poor QBs in Oakland and San Francisco during those years, Moss's worst numbers of his career beat out Lloyd's best production of his career.

Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald having been catching passes from arguably some of the worst QBs in the NFL down in Arizona, and their worst season numbers are better than Lloyd's best. Lloyd simply does not stack up against any good #1 or even #2 WR in this league, even when you compare virtually identical situations with bad teams and bad QBs. I could see an argument for not comparing him to Marvin Harrison, but you can pick plenty of WRs in the NFL who are catching passes from QBs far worse than Brunell and/or Campbell yet still putting up numbers that shame Brandon Lloyd.

There is simply no factual, statistically supported basis for believing Lloyd is a good WR. If you want to sit here and raise vague, baseless questions about why Gibbs did what he did, and maybe it's the system and maybe it's the QB and maybe it's a bad pair of shoes or there's just someone out to get Lloyd, I suppose we could do that all day.

Anyone can sit around and raise questions. If you believe that Lloyd is a good receiver then back it up with something other than pure conjecture.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by mheisig

The stats completely disprove your point about Randy Moss.

In 29 games with Oakland, Moss had 102 catches for 1,558 yards and 11 TDs.

In 45 games with San Francisco, Lloyd had 105 catches for 1,510 yards and 13 TDs.

In other words, with equally poor QBs in Oakland and San Francisco during those years, Moss's worst numbers of his career beat out Lloyd's best production of his career.

Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald having been catching passes from arguably some of the worst QBs in the NFL down in Arizona, and their worst season numbers are better than Lloyd's best. Lloyd simply does not stack up against any good #1 or even #2 WR in this league, even when you compare virtually identical situations with bad teams and bad QBs. I could see an argument for not comparing him to Marvin Harrison, but you can pick plenty of WRs in the NFL who are catching passes from QBs far worse than Brunell and/or Campbell yet still putting up numbers that shame Brandon Lloyd.

There is simply no factual, statistically supported basis for believing Lloyd is a good WR. If you want to sit here and raise vague, baseless questions about why Gibbs did what he did, and maybe it's the system and maybe it's the QB and maybe it's a bad pair of shoes or there's just someone out to get Lloyd, I suppose we could do that all day.

Anyone can sit around and raise questions. If you believe that Lloyd is a good receiver then back it up with something other than pure conjecture.

That is where talent evaluation comes in, does a player have ability or not, you are the type who is cut and dry, if a player doesn't produce he's a bust, if he does it's because he's great, without factoring in the circumstances of his success or failure.


Your problem is you are stuck on stats, as many do, stats are easily manipulated often because of circumstances which is the whole point. he's not going to stack up because he's not being used.

But if you think you are correct with your statement on Lloyd then take it up with Gibbs and let him know that there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to trade for the guy because as you said he's a lousy WR. Of coarse that's not what we heard when we traded for him is it?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

His history with San fran as well is that he will catch anything close to him, if you want to make a case that Campbell is a pro bowl QB the second he took the field last season go ahead, but it seems anything pertaining to Gibbs failures as a coach is alway's credited to the players and not his own, the fact that you know that lloyd had all these problems before we traded for him, and Gibbs still went and traded for this guy, if he is the bust you say he is, it just shows how out of touch Gibbs really is now doesn't it?

Well he seems to have struck gold with the drafting of Campbell now hasn't he?? How out of touch can he be?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

That is where talent evaluation comes in, does a player have ability or not, you are the type who is cut and dry, if a player doesn't produce he's a bust, if he does it's because he's great, without factoring in the circumstances of his success or failure.


Your problem is you are stuck on stats, as many do, stats are easily manipulated often because of circumstances which is the whole point. he's not going to stack up because he's not being used.

But if you think you are correct with your statement on Lloyd then take it up with Gibbs and let him know that there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to trade for the guy because as you said he's a lousy WR. Of coarse that's not what we heard when we traded for him is it?

Ok, why should Brandon Lloyd be used here?

I'll give you that having a bad QB is pretty much death for a receiver in terms of receptions and yards gained, but what about when he moves onto another team and is even more totally useless.

The coaches gave Lloyd every chance to be successful here and he's been terrible.

[kdogg3270]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Ok, why should Brandon Lloyd be used here?

I'll give you that having a bad QB is pretty much death for a receiver in terms of receptions and yards gained, but what about when he moves onto another team and is even more totally useless.

The coaches gave Lloyd every chance to be successful here and he's been
terrible.

when? what chances have we given him? He gets maybe 1 or 2 balls thrown his way every TWO OR THREE games...hard to get into a rythym like that...He's not really terrible as a recieiver. Hell, talent wise he is pretty damn good..problem is , he is too much of a damn distraction, probably doe'snt work very hard (the kiss of death on a gibbs-coached team), and does'nt endear himself to his teammates as far as i can tell...

and somebody mentioned his best year was for 733 yds and he is not a # 2....hell thats about what i expect from a # 2 (on a team known for running the ball like us)...Randle EL hasnt reached that season total yet in his career. (he will this year though YEAH!)


bottom line..I think B Lloyd has alienated the coaches and they are keeping him off the field. Both parties are to blame.

[dgack]

I think the idea that Lloyd is a great (or even better than mediocre) receiver who we're simply letting languish on our bench because he's offended Joe's Puritan sense of decency is maybe one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

But, even if it were true, I think it takes guts and the kind of stature that Gibbs has to take that stand and keep that guy firmly in the doghouse until he puts his team first, sending a message to all the other knuckleheads in the lockerroom what has to happen if you want to be a starting Redskin.

Not doing this, and letting the inmates run the asylum, is how a team can turn into, say, the Cincinnati Bengals. And this, from a guy I totally respect in Marvin Lewis, which makes it twice as painful. On the flip side, even though it cost them games, and even though I hate them as a team, I totally respect the Eagles for cutting TO loose at a time when they needed his skills most.

But, really, arguing in favor of Brandon Lloyd at this point is kind of like arguing that dogshit doesn't really taste as bad as you might think. You might be right, but you sure as hell aren't going to get me to come over to your way of thinking, and most people intuitively recognize that you're dead wrong.