Campbell's development curve

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

How many of you guys were screaming at the TV when the skins tried 5 or 6 screen plays to Widereicevers in the first half of the game on sunday? I know me and my fellow skins fans I was watching the game with were. Also on the Oline problems they are all centered around not having Jansen and Thomas. The other 3 guys Samuels, Kendall, and Rabach are getting the job done. The 3 fumbles on Sunday were all on Wade. He couldn't block Vrabel. Lord help us if the cowbays line up Ware on Wades side.

Wade only got beaten for one of the sacks. The other two were on Mike Sellers, with help from Portis that arrived late. Obviously, the blocking schemes did not account for Vrabel very well.

As for the screens, I was bothered more by the fact that Gibbs never called a stop and go for Moss against Asante Samuel. In the first quarter, it was clear as day that Samuel was jumping the sideline hitch to Moss, yet we never took advantage of that. Sometimes I wonder if Gibbs is watching the same game that we are. God forbid we risk a turnover by throwing a deep sideline pattern to Moss against a CB overplaying the short stuff.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Wade only got beaten for one of the sacks. The other two were on Mike Sellers, with help from Portis that arrived late. Obviously, the blocking schemes did not account for Vrabel very well.

As for the screens, I was bothered more by the fact that Gibbs never called a stop and go for Moss against Asante Samuel. In the first quarter, it was clear as day that Samuel was jumping the sideline hitch to Moss, yet we never took advantage of that. Sometimes I wonder if Gibbs is watching the same game that we are. God forbid we risk a turnover by throwing a deep sideline pattern to Moss against a CB overplaying the short stuff.

Why would Gibbs call anything when Saunders is the one calling the plays?

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Why would Gibbs call anything when Saunders is the one calling the plays?

Saunders may be calling the plays, but you cannot convince me that Gibbs isn't heavily influencing the conservative nature of the passing game. An earlier poster hit the nail on the head with the ridiculous number of WR screens we threw - NE was jumping all over those by overplaying their CBs near the line. Moss had zero chance to break one of those, and what better way to loosen that aggressive CB coverage than to challenge them downfield?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Saunders may be calling the plays, but you cannot convince me that Gibbs isn't heavily influencing the conservative nature of the passing game. An earlier poster hit the nail on the head with the ridiculous number of WR screens we threw - NE was jumping all over those by overplaying their CBs near the line. Moss had zero chance to break one of those, and what better way to loosen that aggressive CB coverage than to challenge them downfield?

Of course Gibbs is involved with the game plan, but he's not calling the plays.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Saunders may be calling the plays, but you cannot convince me that Gibbs isn't heavily influencing the conservative nature of the passing game. An earlier poster hit the nail on the head with the ridiculous number of WR screens we threw - NE was jumping all over those by overplaying their CBs near the line. Moss had zero chance to break one of those, and what better way to loosen that aggressive CB coverage than to challenge them downfield?

From what I have seen from going to a game (Giants) and from what I have seen on TV (which is much harder to see) we have plenty of 15 to 20 yard routs. In the Giants game I saw 7 to 8 wide open WR's which JC did not see and it was not a case of not having enough time. In other games I have seen open WR's which JC missed and hit the short pass. So yes Gibbs in some cases has gone consevative but in allot of cases its JC not hitting the deaper guy. I'm not blaming JC just pointing out that he is still young and missing allot of bigger plays. I do agree that we need to try and hit some deeper passes but against the Pats that would have really opened JC up to taking some hits.

[MTK]

I think some people are getting a little ahead of themselves with their expectations of JC's progress. I think he's right about where he should be in terms of development, and in terms of some of the intangibles such as poise he's way ahead of the game.

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

we cant run the nohuddle JC might make a mistake and we cant take that chance. Al not calling the plays. It has to be Gibbs. Look at AL with the rams and KC his offense was more imaginative than this crap. Gibbs should let him call the game or fire AL.

[70Chip]

Jason Campbell will struggle so long as we have no running game. And I don't see any reason for the run to improve unless we play a defense that Sucks in the trancendent, metaphysical sense of the word. If Randy Thomas comes back in week 13 or whatever, that would help. but I don't see any reason to suspect that we will be a contender by then unless something changes drastically. Right now, this is the worst Redskins offense I have seen since the 1993 Rod Dowhower group.

Also, people hate all the short passes. Me too, but that is an attempt to get yards on first down in the absence of any ground attack. They are runs for teams that can't run. Campbell is not demonstrating the ability to find the open receiver in the intermediate passing game. He holds the ball a lot like Brunell did. And when he doesn't, the throws are not always accurate. He still has a long, long ways to go. I think if we were a team that could run for 150 yards a game, his deep balls would be a serious problem for the oppossing defensive coaches. But we're not.

[JWsleep]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Jason Campbell will struggle so long as we have no running game. And I don't see any reason for the run to improve unless we play a defense that Sucks in the trancendent, metaphysical sense of the word. If Randy Thomas comes back in week 13 or whatever, that would help. but I don't see any reason to suspect that we will be a contender by then unless something changes drastically. Right now, this is the worst Redskins offense I have seen since the 1993 Rod Dowhower group.

Also, people hate all the short passes. Me too, but that is an attempt to get yards on first down in the absence of any ground attack. They are runs for teams that can't run. Campbell is not demonstrating the ability to find the open receiver in the intermediate passing game. He holds the ball a lot like Brunell did. And when he doesn't, the throws are not always accurate. He still has a long, long ways to go. I think if we were a team that could run for 150 yards a game, his deep balls would be a serious problem for the oppossing defensive coaches. But we're not.

Excellent post--couldn't agree more. I think, though, that Gibbs/Saunders/Buges will find something that works in the run game for this group. And Campbell will get better on those reads--the Pats are tough to read, famously: look at Peyton's trouble with them.

But if we can run it, the long game will open up, and then all this talk of "conservative" will go out the window.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Jason Campbell will struggle so long as we have no running game. And I don't see any reason for the run to improve unless we play a defense that Sucks in the trancendent, metaphysical sense of the word. If Randy Thomas comes back in week 13 or whatever, that would help. but I don't see any reason to suspect that we will be a contender by then unless something changes drastically. Right now, this is the worst Redskins offense I have seen since the 1993 Rod Dowhower group.

Also, people hate all the short passes. Me too, but that is an attempt to get yards on first down in the absence of any ground attack. They are runs for teams that can't run. Campbell is not demonstrating the ability to find the open receiver in the intermediate passing game. He holds the ball a lot like Brunell did. And when he doesn't, the throws are not always accurate. He still has a long, long ways to go. I think if we were a team that could run for 150 yards a game, his deep balls would be a serious problem for the oppossing defensive coaches. But we're not.

More than the short passes, I hate where we're throwing them - we are still a horizontal offense, throwing the majority of the short stuff to the sidelines. We almost never attack the middle of the field, which would force LBs to cover our shifty receivers. Welker absolutely destroyed us in 10-12 yard chunks last Sunday.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

More than the short passes, I hate where we're throwing them - we are still a horizontal offense, throwing the majority of the short stuff to the sidelines. We almost never attack the middle of the field, which would force LBs to cover our shifty receivers. Welker absolutely destroyed us in 10-12 yard chunks last Sunday.

I think we're running those routes, but Campbell is not delivering the ball. The Green Bay 4th and 2 is a perfect example. He had Betts in the flat short of the marker or McCardell on the slant wide open beyond the marker and he never took his eyes off Betts. McCardell started to throw his hands up in frustration but being a veteran team-oriented guy, he restrained himself. Bottom line is that just because something is not completed, doesn't mean the coaches are not calling those plays.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying Campbell won't get better, I just think there's a lot of variables to why we're not producing in the passing game right now. Certainly the WR screen is NOT a play where he would have other options. But, as I said before, those plays are glorified runs and should be thought of as such.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I think we're running those routes, but Campbell is not delivering the ball. The Green Bay 4th and 2 is a perfect example. He had Betts in the flat short of the marker or McCardell on the slant wide open beyond the marker and he never took his eyes off Betts. McCardell started to throw his hands up in frustration but being a veteran team-oriented guy, he restrained himself. Bottom line is that just because something is not completed, doesn't mean the coaches are not calling those plays.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying Campbell won't get better, I just think there's a lot of variables to why we're not producing in the passing game right now. Certainly the WR screen is NOT a play where he would have other options. But, as I said before, those plays are glorified runs and should be thought of as such.

Good point about the GB game. It begs the question who is the first option on that play? I would hope that it should be the WR on the quick slant and that Campbell just made a bad read by going to Betts in the flat.

[firstdown]

Another thing is if we go by what many have said on this site sense Saunders has been a coach he has had two things that could have changed the way he calls the games up to this point. First he had MB which most here said his arm was a noodle and could not throw the long pass. So why would saunders open up th O for long pass plays? Now he has an inexperienced QB which is now playing behind a patched up O line. So why would he ask his inexperienced QB to stand in there to take a bounding and/ or making big mistakes? In our first three games we were throwing the deep ball but that kind of shut down as our linemen have gone down.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

We definitely lack an identity on offense. The offense looks so different from one week to the next, that it is hard to figure out just what exactly the coaches are trying to do. With all that being said, it is impossible to determine if the lack of coherence is attributable to:

(a) the injuries to the O-line,

(b) our desire, but inability, to run the ball effectively,

(c) Jason Campbell's inexperience,

(d) Saunders,

(e) Gibbs,

(f) a conflict between Saunders and Gibbs, or

(g) some combination of the above.

[rscalder]

I am as discouraged as any redskins fan. I just want a consistent team that competes at a high level every week. Granted, the injuries have hurt this year; but dropped passes, guys whiffing on blocks, and defenders trying to knock guys out instead of wrapping up is tough to watch week in and week out. I think Campbell is going to be a top 5 quarterback in this league if the receivers hold onto the ball, the line gets healthy, and the offense is put solely into Saunders hands. What I noticed in the Cardinals and Patriots game about Campbell is he has a bad finger on his throwing hand that he hurt on the fumble recovery/return for TD in the Packers game. I think this is causing his ball to sail. Maybe just an excuse but he did have tape on his index finger during the Cardinals game.