Al Saunders on the way out?

[SmootSmack]

If Saunders left (maybe even if he didn't), do you guys think we might see a WC offense (and I'm talking about the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense) with the Redskins next year if Gregg Williams becomes head coach?

Consider this:

1. When Williams was the HC in Buffalo, he tried implementing the West Coast offense

2. Jason Campbell was most successful his senior year at Auburn where he ran...the West Coast offense

[WillH]

Interesting. To be perfectly honest I am not all that familiar with the West Coast Offense. How well would the rest of our Offensive players fit into that system?

[skinsguy]

I think if we move toward the West Coast Offense we need to make sure we have some really good receivers to make it work. It might make Clinton Portis shine though.

[SmootSmack]

Well Portis played under a version of the WC offense in Denver with Mike Shanahan, Santana Moss played under one in New York with Herman Edwards

[bertoskins2]

Originally Posted by hurrykaine

Saunders better be back. Would suck to go back to the high school offense that Breaux/Burns/Bugel employed in '04 and most of '05. Or for that matter, it would suck equally to watch the offense struggle to learn a totally new offensive system.

the fact is, al suanders offense is difficult and complicated. and too bad we cannot learn it to perfection. that why we cannot produce it. hope that we can lure pats current offensive coordinator here.

[KLHJ2]

I have mixed feelings about the West Coast offense. I love the short passing game, but I also like pounding the football. Those two things rarely get along in the West Coast. I guess it depends on which version you are using as well. The Eagles do not run much, but Tampa Bay does. Whatever.

In my honest opinion I would rather see our offensive system stay in place. If that means keeping Saunders, then so be it. I do not want to see our offense struggle for another season and a half because we changed everything again.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by bertoskins2

the fact is, al suanders offense is difficult and complicated. and too bad we cannot learn it to perfection. that why we cannot produce it. hope that we can lure pats current offensive coordinator here.

Josh McDaniel is probably not going anywhere this year, if he does it'd probably be Atlanta

[bertoskins2]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If Saunders left (maybe even if he didn't), do you guys think we might see a WC offense (and I'm talking about the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense) with the Redskins next year if Gregg Williams becomes head coach?

Consider this:

1. When Williams was the HC in Buffalo, he tried implementing the West Coast offense

2. Jason Campbell was most successful his senior year at Auburn where he ran...the West Coast offense

from what i have seen on GB yesterday, I am curious what will be the effect if we implement it here. this will also help our defense since this WC can eat up alot of clock. of course we can take shots downfiled from time to time if opportunity arises

[WillH]

Well I just looked this up on Wikipedia, Im not sure how accurate or relevant any of this is but for the sake of argument:

The West Coast offense requires a quarterback who throws extremely accurately, and often blindly, very close to opposing players hands. In addition, it requires the quarterback to be able to quickly pick one of 5 receivers to throw to, much quicker than previously used systems. Often, the quarterback cannot think about the play, but instead reacts instinctively--and thus is often under the control of the offensive coordinator, calling the plays for him.

This is in contrast to the previous quarterback requirements of other systems, which were an adept game manager and a strong arm. Thus, for example, many people reasoned that Johnny Unitas, a strong-armed field general would not have fared well in being subservient to the offensive coordinator, and that his long but sometimes wobbly passes would not have worked in the new system. The West Coast offense caused a split still evident today amongst quarterbacks: those who were more adept at the west coast style (Joe Montana, Steve Young, Matt Hasselbeck) and those more in tune with the old style (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Peyton Manning).

Also, the West Coast offense requires sure-handed receivers comfortable catching in heavy traffic, and the system downplays speedy, larger receivers who are covered easily in short yardage situation. One result has been the longevity of receivers in the West Coast system (such as the notable Jerry Rice) because a decline in speed is not as harmful, when, in "stretch the field" systems, a receiver who loses a step is a major liability. "WCO" systems also rely on agile running backs that catch the ball as often as they run. Roger Craig was a leading receiver for the 49ers for many years and was often a 1000 yard rusher and 1000 yard receiver. Finally, receivers must follow precise, complicated routes as opposed to innovation; so subservient, intelligent players are valued more than independent, pure athletes.

A West Coast offense thus requires a willing, accurate passer and sure-handed receivers with intelligence.

Finally, the West Coast offense, with its emphasis on quick reactive skills, can be seen to further develop the running quarterback motif, where extremely fast running quarterbacks (Michael Vick, Jake Plummer, Steve Young, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young) are valued, if they are good passers, because in blitz or short-yardage situations, when the West Coast offense's value is negated, the running quarterback can make up this difference by posing a threat to make the first down himself, paralyzing an aggressive defense.

So (according to these requirements) we seem to have some things that lend to this type of system, and some that dont (how insightful huh?).

Campbell is accurate, but perhaps not on shorter throws. He has incredible arm strength so one could argue that the WCO might be a waste of that ability considering its heavy use of quick, short passes, but of course those deeper passes can be set up by the shorter passes. Also I am not sure if he has the knowledge to make all the reads accurately just yet, and he seems to have trouble getting the ball out quick enough to make this system work correctly. He does, however, have athleticism that could compliment the system, and all the aforementioned issues can be resolved with a bit more experience. So as far as JC goes its a toss up.

As far as Moss and El . . . well Im not sure they have the most reliable hands, I wouldn't say that route running was their strength (not that they are bad at it, but Moss is ussually credited more for his ability to adjust to the deep ball then for running crisp routes), I'm not sure either are built for catching balls in heavy traffic (but Im sure they'd be "comfortable" with it, perhaps not durable enough though), and they seem to be much better suited for running deeper routes because of their speed. Both, however, have shown that they are great at making plays after shorter passes, and once they have established themselves as a serious threat on shorter pass plays it will open things up for their speed to be put to good use on deep shots, and could perhaps flourish in the system given the right playcalling.

Clinton Portis, despite his production on screens late in the season has never been known for his catching abilities. I am excited at his improvement in this area, but I am not sure I would bank on him being the hybrid runningback-receiver this system calls for. On the other hand, the running lanes this system is supposed to create due to forcing teams to respect the pass could really improve CP's production; we all know what he can do if he gets into space. Also it mentioned somewhere that traditionally the WCO is a two back system which might allow us to utilize both CP and Betts.

As far as Cooley, there was little if any mention TE's in what I read, so I am not sure what his role would be. What I am certain of, however, is that he MUST be utilized. I am sure he could help on the short passing aspect of the philosophy, and could be used on screens.

Overall what I read suggested that the WCO had little to do with playcalling, but was more of a philosophy that short to intermediate passes can be used to setup the run and the deep pass. A "pass first, run later" philosophy if you will. I tend to think that we are better setup for a run first team. Over the past three years more often then not it was our running game that won us most of our games, and CP has shown that he can carry the team on his shoulders if need be. Plus, I had enough of the dinking and dunking we saw with Brunell. I know that that was not a philosophical decision, but rather his inability to throw the deep ball making those passes a liability, but still I am not convinced that the short passes actually do much to open up either the run or the deep ball. But as I said before, I know next to nothing about this. I am just bored and decided to research this a bit for fun, but from what I can tell (which is very little) the WCO doesn't seem to match up well for this team.

[Oakland Red]

The Al Saunders offense didn't flourish until the end of the season because Jason Campbell is still learning the system. As soon as he was replaced by a quarterback who was not only talented but experienced in the system, our offense took off like a rocket.

I'm confident that Dan Snyder is wise enough to maintain stability. We have a chance to be very good next season, but if we tear up our offense, we will go back to square one, just like we did when we brought Al Saunders in originally.

[Paintrain]

If the 2nd G in Gregg is truly for genius, maybe he sees the direction the league's successful teams (NE, GB, Seattle, Dallas) went this year to a high powered, aggressive offense and wants that to be our hallmark.

Nothing probably frustrated him more than all of the leads the offense didn't expand on because JG took the air out of the ball and his defense ended up giving away too much from being on the field forever. Of course McDaniels (NE), Garrett (Dal) or either GB & Sea coaches aren't coming to coach the offense but he (hopefully) may want to incorporate some of their concepts into our offense.

[jdlea]

I'm really think that the only way I can get behind the hiring of Williams is if Saunders stays. If Saunders goes, I don't think that continuity on the defensive is nearly as important as it would be on O. The offense started to click under Collins and I think that Campbell should be able to take a look at that and start to really become a very good player in the scheme, if Saunders goes, all of that is out the window and he has to learn ANOTHER new system. I can pretty much guarantee that means they'll have another down year on that side of the ball.

As for the defense, they were good last year, but GW showed a lot of stubborness when it comes to sticking to gameplans. I can't remember how many times I was screaming at the screen to change his gameplan and bring pressure or whatever and he never did. See: the Pats game, he just stayed in deep coverage even though they were being picked apart.

[lespaul]

Originally Posted by Oakland Red

The Al Saunders offense didn't flourish until the end of the season because Jason Campbell is still learning the system. As soon as he was replaced by a quarterback who was not only talented but experienced in the system, our offense took off like a rocket.

I'm confident that Dan Snyder is wise enough to maintain stability. We have a chance to be very good next season, but if we tear up our offense, we will go back to square one, just like we did when we brought Al Saunders in originally.

I wish I shared your enthusiasm regarding Snyder. Hopefully he wasn't blowing smoke when he said he had learned a lot from Gibbs. If he falls back into the money can win ball games frame of mind,we are boned.

[SouperMeister]

It would be a shame if we promoted Williams in an effort to maintain continuity, then let Saunders go. The Saunders offense works when the QB delivers the ball on time. Jason Campbell was getting close, and by next year, I would expect him to make the big leap that we've seen from other QB's that have played under Saunders.

[QBall]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i was one of the biggest Saunders bashers. but over the last quarter of the season, his offense started clicking. now, to keep continuity, he has almost got to stay if the skins are to be successful in 2008

I agree. Didn't like him in 06' at all. This year it got better and towards the end was great. We needed Campbell in Seatle, Colling looked old.

Keep Al.