Salary Negotiation:

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I have to strenuously disagree with the advice to go in with a range. You are always setting yourself up for the low end. The best approach is to give them a number that is reasonable, but, as BB noted, a little higher than your reservation price, and let them know that you will negotiate if they don't think this is fair. Otherwise, you are negotiating against yourself, which is the cardinal sin of negotiating.

I think that's generally true, but not always the case. For example, my salary demands depend upon fringe benefits. To the extent that they suck, I ask for a higher salary and vice versa. I haven't had any problems with that approach thus far.

[onlydarksets]

I agree, but I thought we were talking about salary. If you are talking total compensation, then that's another thing. For my current job, I told them I needed a total comp of $x, and they offered base+bonus that equaled $x. I don't care that my salary was less than $x. It could have been a range, but the total comp needs to be a fixed number.

Even when you count non-monetary compensation (via benefits), there is a dollar or utility assigned to it. Whatever the total value is to you, that should be presented in absolute terms, and then negotiate from there. For example, you need $70k plus 3 weeks vacation, but you would be willing to take less for 4 weeks off. You wouldn't say "I'll take $65k and 3-4 weeks off", because you'll get $65k and 3 weeks in most cases.

I think I'm agreeing with you sort of.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I think that's generally true, but not always the case. For example, my salary demands depend upon fringe benefits. To the extent that they suck, I ask for a higher salary and vice versa. I haven't had any problems with that approach thus far.

You mean you don't go in there and say "I'm good, nay, I'm very good therefore I demand you hire me, pay me 270K and give me a company jet for the weekends."

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by saden1

You mean you don't go in there and say "I'm good, nay, I'm very good therefore I demand you hire me, pay me 270K and give me a company jet for the weekends."

Dude, I'm ALWAYS saying "Nay" this and "Nay" that. Employers like it when you're pretentious.

Don't bother responding, I'm above you - nay, I'm FAR above you.

[skinsguy]

Unfortunately, since you're going to be straight out of college, you're not going to have a lot of bargaining leverage. You have to think of your first "real" job in your career as a starting point for experience. While making a great salary is what we all go to college for, those first few years of experience should be the most important. Like what Schneed or Saden said (can't remember which one,) save your money and avoid as much credit card debt as possible. You can't expect to be coming right out of college and into a limo, although that can very well happen.

When it comes to the salary question in an interview, it's always best to have researched what that position's average salary range is for the particular area in which the job is located in. From there, you can throw in a couple of extra thousand dollars for relocating costs if you're having to relocate. I wouldn't get too cocky and expect the high end of the salary range or even the midway point, because those figures are usually reserved for those who already have a couple years of work experience in that particular field. If the job's minimum range starts at $40k, you can ask for $45k. Most of the time, they'll give ya an extra couple of thousand to intice you if they're interested.

[MTRedskinsFan]

I've learned two key points regarding salary. Both are things I started to figure out when I earned promotions but didn't fully understand until I got into bank management.

1) The person(s) you interview w/ either want you or they don't. It's very rarely a case of "Well, we like this guy but only if he'll work for this salary and we sort of like that guy only if he'll work for..." You get the idea.

2) The second key relates directly to the first: ask for the highest reasonable salary. If management has already been given a maximum salary guideline (and you're requesting higher) they will say "Hey Jack, we really want you to come on board but can only offer you x for a salary. If they don't want you, what you asked for makes no difference.

Lastly, I don't recommend giving them a salary range. Most companies constantly look to control costs and if you give them a range they will offer you something toward the lower end. Hope this helps and good luck sir.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by MTRedskinsFan

I've learned two key points regarding salary. Both are things I started to figure out when I earned promotions but didn't fully understand until I got into bank management.

1) The person(s) you interview w/ either want you or they don't. It's very rarely a case of "Well, we like this guy but only if he'll work for this salary and we sort of like that guy only if he'll work for..." You get the idea.

2) The second key relates directly to the first: ask for the highest reasonable salary. If management has already been given a maximum salary guideline (and you're requesting higher) they will say "Hey Jack, we really want you to come on board but can only offer you x for a salary. If they don't want you, what you asked for makes no difference.

Lastly, I don't recommend giving them a salary range. Most companies constantly look to control costs and if you give them a range they will offer you something toward the lower end. Hope this helps and good luck sir.

That's excellent advice - best on this thread so far.

Along with #1, the size and resources of the company also makes a difference. It's very different interviewing with a small business and the owner of the company because what he pays you impacts him personally. I've worked for some small companies (2-10 people) and it becomes obvious that the owners have a lot more control because obviously they're not corralled by upper management, at the same time every extra dollar that goes to you directly impacts them.

On the flip side, my most recent job is with a company of 10,000+ employees. My current boss had salary guidelines he had to work within, but it didn't matter to him personally that much what I got paid as long as I worked there. He got me on the higher end up the pay range, got me there and had me real happy when I started. On top of it, I technically wasn't eligible for a raise for 12 months, but he got me a 5% raise after 4 months. It wasn't coming out of his pocket, so whatever extra money he could throw my way only made me happier. Makes for good morale when your boss is going to bat for you to get you a little extra.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I think that's generally true, but not always the case. For example, my salary demands depend upon fringe benefits. To the extent that they suck, I ask for a higher salary and vice versa. I haven't had any problems with that approach thus far.

Good point about the benefits. Defined benefits, but also some of the "undefined" or informal benefits.

It's not listed as an official company benefit, but the way my boss runs our group I basically set my own hours. As long as we get the work done, he doesn't care if I show up at 6:00am or noon. Got a dentist appointment at 10:00? No big deal, no need to call or plan or take time off, just work as long as it takes to do the job.

With that comes the understanding that we might have to work 16 hour days for a week leading up to a site launch to get the job done, but that's more than made up for on the days I can come in when I need to or take off at 2:00pm cause the weather is nice.

Having worked a job where being a minute late meant disciplinary action, the freedom that comes with setting your own schedule is incredible. If someone offered me the same job, same benefits and everything but required me to work defined hours I would probably need a 30% pay raise to even consider it.

[saden1]

Benefits first salary second unless the salary can easily compensate for the lacking benefits. Give me 3 weeks of vacation, 100% matching up to 4%, health benefits where I don't have to pay with a foot or a leg and you are in pretty good shape as a prospective employer.


Bottom line, if you nickel and dime me with the benefits, I am going to make up for it via salary.