Loose Change

[BrudLee]

Here's the thing though - the second thing you brought up was "After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country."

Loose Change was originally planned as a work of fiction. It was then marketed as a documentary. This is like me being afraid to go camping in Maryland after seeing The Blair Witch Project. Fiction, presented as documentary.

I am afraid to go camping in Maryland, by the way. Not because of ghosts, but because of deer ticks.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by JGisLordOfTheRings

Wow. The first person to come on, besides Dynamite Rave, and NOT give me a buncha shit for what I brought up.

Unreal.

Look, you posted a video that has been debunked as a work of fiction. You then act as if this could possibly be true which, for the reasons I stated above, is incredibly disrespectful to those who died. When the foolishness of your initial post was brought to light by SS (with links showing how foolish it was), you attack people for pointing out the ridiculousness of your initial post AND clearly show you haven't done any research on the actual video ("How can you deny the physical evidence", etc.).

If you make ridiculous statements and tout them as thought provoking, expect to get ridiculed.

[JoeRedskin]

Also, if you look both SS and Buster came back with points to show you the error of your ways. Buster make have called you an idiot, but, hey, he did it w/ respectfully and limited to the precondition that "if you believe this stuff". You responded, relying only the debunked video, that they were baseless in their indignation for simply disageeing with you. The argument devolved from that point on.

Your original post was idiotic and it was rightfully classified as such. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

Here's the thing though - the second thing you brought up was "After watching that video, I feel like I have been duped and violated by my own country."

Loose Change was originally planned as a work of fiction. It was then marketed as a documentary. This is like me being afraid to go camping in Maryland after seeing The Blair Witch Project. Fiction, presented as documentary.

I am afraid to go camping in Maryland, by the way. Not because of ghosts, but because of deer ticks.

Wuss!

Blair Witch Project was kind of surreal to watch, because my family, friends and I used to go to the park where it was filmed all the time.

[hooskins]

I mean I liked Loose Change(fan of conspriracy theories) but it was fiction.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, to further SGG's point, honest skepticism is fine good and healthy. But, skepticism that refuses to relent can be disrespectful to the opposing view and to those that support it.

Question Authority. But if authority answers, do them the courtesy of listening. If you do not, then you are acting with the same arrogance towards authority and towards those that support the authority that you would assign to the authorities themselves.

The irrational skeptic is arrogant and disrespectful at heart - "I know you are lying, no matter what evidence exists. You can't fool me b/c I am, essentially, smarter than you."

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

This was an act of war. Palestinians literally danced in the streets at the news and al-quieda has claimed, proudly, that it was their actions that did this. The first responders actions were not manipulated acts, but authentic acts of heroism.

Crap like "Loose Change" attempts to cheapen those facts by perverting the reality of the situation.

Wow, that is a fantastic post Joeredskin. I would say I couldn't say it better myself, but I doubt I would have come anywhere close to that good a post. Great job.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

In situations like 9/11, where first responders risked their lives, to continue to assert a conspiracy and to question the real cause of the act is to say to those who risked their lives - you were duped, you were played the fool, your "heroism" was nothing more than a show for others.

I agree with everything in your statement, with this exception. No matter who was behind it or anyone's opinion of that, those guys would have been there doing their job. It wouldn't matter if it had been George Bush himself flying that plane, they would've been their saving lives and giving them as well. Maybe there are extreme radicals who will say their efforts were a waste, but any time anyone is put into a situation like that and risks and gives their lives in an attempt to save others... especailly knowingly, as happened on that day... the heroism cannot be argued, and I've never seen it as such.

I've listened to the 911 conspiracies. I know aq claimed responsibility and accept that as fact. However, how our govt responded to that, with the patriot act, the refusal to accept and acknowledge faultered security by this administration, and in fact to use that day of horror for political gain time and time again... especially in the justification of the Iraqi war... sickens me.

Kinda like how Toby Keith writes all these songs about patriotism and everyon admires him... he sells several million albums and all of his soldier and american themed songs hit #1... I guess the skeptic that I am is saddened by the thought of someone profiting so greatly from such tragedy. He may not have been anything to do with the cause, but the profitability has been great for him.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Definitely agree about the second part

As of the first part, funny you should mention that I was actually looking for a YouTube clip of that just now

LOL...I guess you couldn't find it huh?
I'm not a very good search when it comes to youtube.

[EternalEnigma21]

It just seems to me like the statements:

"if you don't support the war you don't support the troops"

and

"if you continue to perpetrate the conspiracy you spit in the face of the rescue workers"

are aimed at nothing but manipulation. In my opinion, the only people attempting to drag any hero's efforts through the mud are the people who use their efforts for their own gain... whether its political, or to "win" and argument.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...I guess you couldn't find it huh?
I'm not a very good search when it comes to youtube.

Well I found this:



and this:

Southpark Episode on 9/11 Conspiracy - Video Download | 911Blogger.com

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by JGisLordOfTheRings

Did you even watch it? How can you refute blatant scientifical evidence that most of this crap COULDNT have physically happened. 120 tons of stell melting at 2000F because of burninf jet fuel? Wtf ever....did u watch the towers come down? Tell me there weren't explosives in that building and I may call you crazy. Even the firefighters who were there agree.....

If you go around just believing exactly what they tell you, then you've become what they want; a sheep. A dumb animal who doesn't ask questions. Common sense can guide you through a lot of the BS.....

I gave up trying to refute "scientifical" evidence years ago, especially when its blatant. There's no point arguing with "Scienticians".

I don't worry about the fact that I'm a sheep, though, since there are so many intelligent, free-thinking people like you who see through their lies. If it weren't for people like you we wouldn't know that 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is really real,or that Prescott Bush was Hitler's butler briefly in the 1920s,or that Richard Nixon was behind the wheel of the presidential limousine in Dallas before escaping through a manhole cover beneath the triple underpass, or that Vince Foster was mudered by Bill Clinton's dog Buddy.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

There's no point arguing with "Scienticians".

HAHAHAHAHA

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

It just seems to me like the statements:

"if you don't support the war you don't support the troops"

and

"if you continue to perpetrate the conspiracy you spit in the face of the rescue workers"

are aimed at nothing but manipulation. In my opinion, the only people attempting to drag any hero's efforts through the mud are the people who use their efforts for their own gain... whether its political, or to "win" and argument.

Well, I don't believe it's accurate to say "if you don't support the war you don't support the troops"

But, as I mentioned earlier, someone I'm very close to played a big role in the recovery efforts. It took a lot out of that person, and still does to this day. I saw first hand what that person had to deal with day in and day out. And yeah, I find it a bit offensive for anyone to imply (especially based on some amateur film that was originally designed to be fiction anyway) that what that person and everyone else involved went through was simply part of some conspiracy, and further, to insinuate that those same people created the conspiracy.

[pdid5000]

Originally Posted by Buster

You're an idiot if you believe this propaganda. No other way to say it.

Here's a few facts and refutations of this piece of trash film and the rest of the loony dreams. Then come back to reality.

I guess Spain, France, England and the rest of the world are all faking their terrorist attacks too? If the Bush administration took the Towers down, then I also guess that Clinton should have hired better bombers in 1993 since the government is obviously trying to kill us.

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

Loose Change - JREF Forum

agree 100%, if people believe this crap I feel really sorry for them.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

HAHAHAHAHA

My own personal "Scientician" assures me that cigarette smoking is the best way to cure "lung fever".