russia/ georgia

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by mheisig

They don't just grab a few guys, show them which end of the gun to point toward the enemy and send them on their way.

Unless they score poory on their ASVAB, then that's pretty much what happens.

[saden1]

Well, this is more serious:

A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

The statement by Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn is the strongest threat that Russia has issued against the plans to put missile defense elements in former Soviet satellite nations.

Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them." Nogovitsyn that would include elements of strategic deterrence systems, he said, according to Interfax.

If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.

[Bushead]

International poltics is so complicated that I would not even begin to discuss this topic without reading newspapers from several countries, reading the history of Georgia, understanding the culture, and try and figure out any behind door deals that were done.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by saden1

Well, this is more serious:



If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.

Sabre rattling at it's best. What else is Russia supposed to say? "No big deal. We like having neighboring countries with missile launching and intercepting capabilities." How would you react if your neighbor chains up 3 or 4 pitbulls right up against your property, just in case you decide to break in and steal his Patrick Ramsey rookie card collection. You'll probably say: "If one of those dogs sh*ts in my yard, I'm filling it full of lead." But, you're not going to kill the dogs unless provoked. You've made it clear to your neighbor that you're not intimidated and will react with appropriate measures. Insanely simple analogy but I have a limited imagination.

For the record, I think the missile defense shield is a bad move. Russia's equivalent of NORAD will detect a launch by an interceptor missile, calculate it's course and have a projected area of impact in about 1 minute. All it takes is for one missile of ours to malfunction and, instead of hitting a rogue state's incoming missile, winds up heading eastward into russian territory. That's when it starts getting a little hairy. Better have a good diplomat on hand, like Ben Affleck's character Jack Ryan in The Sum Of All Fears.

Speaking of which, I can't help but marvel at Tom Clancy's nostradamus-like ability to write a fictitional story and watch parts of it unfold in real life. In Debt of Honor he has a Japanese airline pilot attack the Capitol building during a State of the Union address, which is reminiscent of the 9/11 attacks. In Red Storm Rising, Russia attacks it's southern oil rich neighbors in order to combat an attack by terrorists on their own major oil refinery. Not exactly the same... but still.

[djnemo65]

If you want to criticize Bush, his pulling out of the ABM Treaty was a tremendous mistake, imo. First, the technology is still a long way away from working properly, and may never function at the level needed for serious protection. Moreover, in this age of terrorism the threat of an open nuclear assault from a sovereign nation is minimal. This was, I believe, always about the defense contracts because the technology is so dubious.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by mheisig

The issues gets brought up on a regular basis by, usually by Rep. Rangel or someone else. It always gets defeated and isn't considered a viable option by hardly any military experts.

The modern U.S. military isn't what is was back in WW2. The amount of training and time that goes into a U.S. soldier is astronomical. They don't just grab a few guys, show them which end of the gun to point toward the enemy and send them on their way. These guys are operating complex pieces of technology on a daily basis and require an incredible amount of training.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but reinstating the draft is VERY unlikely. It's usually brought up as a way to strike some fear into people so we don't get into a war or extend ourselves. Kind of along the lines of, "Oh, you want to go to war huh? How about we reinstate...the DRAFT!" And Rangel jumps out of a closet waving his arms...

First off, I am a U.S. Army veteran of nine years. Secondly, my last place of duty was as an intructor for Officer Basic Course... now known as Basic Officer Leaders Course. I am fully aware of the type of training that goes into turning a civilian into a soldier.

These topics (reinstituting the draft) were brought up while I was still in the military. While I felt that the force as a whole was overwhelmed, I never concured with reinstituting the draft. I was a Staff Sergeant in charge of volunteers, I never would want to see what a non volunteer Army looks like. Unfortunately in Vietnam that is what they had to deal with.

Bottom line: I was not defending the idea of the draft. I was just pointing out that it has been taken into consideration during this generation.

Good Day Sir!

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

Sabre rattling at it's best. What else is Russia supposed to say? "No big deal. We like having neighboring countries with missile launching and intercepting capabilities."

You mean sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis? This is really serious...I wouldn't expect us to appreciate having "defensive" missiles in our back yard seeing how defense can turn into offense real quick...pick 6, Touchdown!

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by saden1

You mean sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis? This is really serious...I wouldn't expect us to appreciate having "defensive" missiles in our back yard seeing how defense can turn into offense real quick...pick 6, Touchdown!

From dictionary.com:
sa·ber-rat·tling Pronunciation Key - [sey-ber-rat-ling]
–noun
a show or threat of military power, esp. as used by a nation to impose its policies on other countries.

Yeah, sorta like the Cuban Missile Crisis, which also was sabre-rattling at its best. I think after reading your post and re-reading mine that we are in agreement.

[saden1]

"Cease Fire, Cease Fire!" 2.0

-I am Mikhail Saakashvili and approve this message.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

If I was Poland I would return those missiles and try to make peace with the Russians...god knows no one in this country or Europe cares about you.

I guess some of here in the U.S. care about Poland....

FOXNews.com - Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I guess some of here in the U.S. care about Poland....

FOXNews.com - Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."

I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what?

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!

[GhettoDogAllStars]

I can't believe Russia threatened nuclear force against Poland for accepting this deal. That just pisses me off.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by saden1

I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what?

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!

In 1999, President Clinton successfully lobbied for Poland's entry into NATO. So, we've been obligated to defend Polish soil as though it is our own for the last decade.

Also, Russia's military isn't what it was back in the late 1980s. Their naval and air forces are quite simply no match for ours. In any case, do you really think they would launch military attacks on Poland (where the U.S. maintains some forces)?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

I saw that earlier today and I couldn't help but chuckle. If Russia attacks Poland we're going to defend Poland? How? Sanctions? Militarily? With what?

This administration's retardation level never ceases to amaze. Remember kids, "In the 21'st century nations don't attack other nations." God bless America and no one else!

First off, Russia is not going to invade Poland over this. But if they did...

Your lack of understanding of the United States military is astounding. We would easily overwhelm the Russians in defense of Poland if necessary, in concert with other NATO forces. Our air and naval capabilities are far superior. We can strike faster from more places through the air than anybody else in the world, by far.

Keep in mind, if Russia invaded Poland we wouldn't just send a ground troop force into Poland. We would send air strikes into the heart of Russia and take out strategic targets: communication systems, power plants, military bases, etcetera. We would cripple their home defenses and cut off any invading force within Poland. This would not be difficult for our Air Force.

Our ground forces are stretched a bit thin these days, but keep in mind we have about 1 million active service men and women. We have active ground forces located at bases in Germany and throughout other parts of Europe. In conjunction with NATO forces and our air attacks, we would be able to successfully defend Poland... and Russia knows it.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

In 1999, President Clinton successfully lobbied for Poland's entry into NATO. So, we've been obligated to defend Polish soil as though it is our own for the last decade.

Also, Russia's military isn't what it was back in the late 1980s. Their naval and air forces are quite simply no match for ours. In any case, do you really think they would launch military attacks on Poland (where the U.S. maintains some forces)?

Their military isn't what it use to be and ours is so overstretched it's practically useless. What they do have is nukes, and as we know you don't attack countries with nukes, you negotiate with them. I do believe Russia would attack Poland because I seriously would if I were them. There's no way in hell I would let a neighboring country put "defensive" missiles in my backyard. It's a legitimate concern on their part just as it would be if we were in their shoes.