For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by PennSkinsFan

Listen, JC deserves some blame. The lack of a second receiver deserves blame. The pathetic offensive lien deserves blame. The play calling deserves blame. The Zorn/Portis situation deserves blame. The fact that players quit deserves blame. The fact this team is and not close to playing at a NYG, PITT, level is reality.

But to say it is all JC, or all Zorn, or all this. It is only one thing folks. Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder created this team, created this atmosphere. They deserve the blame.

Good bring in a new QB, bring in a new Coach, and what are you going to get? As long as these two idiots are calling the shots, you will have more of the same. This is 8 years of frustration folks, 8 years.

the same fans who want zorn and JC fired are the same fans who make threads about danny and vinny not being patient and creating a mess of a franchise. firing zorn this year will only add his name to the list with marty of things danny screwed up . . . are we really encouraging our meddling owner to do another overhaul after 1 year when our biggest collective fan knock on danny is his lack of patience? do you see the irony in this? maybe its just me.

go skins!!

[44ever]

Why did Zorn and JC perfomance decline as they gained experience through the season? The team faded when Portis did. I really believe the team and coaches relied to heavily on Portis.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

the same fans who want zorn and JC fired are the same fans who make threads about danny and vinny not being patient and creating a mess of a franchise. firing zorn this year will only add his name to the list with marty of things danny screwed up . . . are we really encouraging our meddling owner to do another overhaul after 1 year when our biggest collective fan knock on danny is his lack of patience? do you see the irony in this? maybe its just me.

go skins!!

It's not just you. What Snyder can't do is just be another fan like he once was. He's not just a fan, he's the owner of the team and he can't panic the way all of us can. If he decides for whatever reason to let Zorn go at the end of this year, it will be very difficult for him to show anyone that he (or anyone else in that front office) has any sort of plan. We have to have the patience to be awful, I mean rally really awful. Because there are a lot of guys on our team who aren't playing that need to play regularly, and the fact is they may stink bad for a couple of years until they have any chance of getting better. But the reality is none of us have that sort of patience.

[Joe Kidd]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

the same fans who want zorn and JC fired are the same fans who make threads about danny and vinny not being patient and creating a mess of a franchise. firing zorn this year will only add his name to the list with marty of things danny screwed up . . . are we really encouraging our meddling owner to do another overhaul after 1 year when our biggest collective fan knock on danny is his lack of patience? do you see the irony in this? maybe its just me.

go skins!!

LOL too true, too true

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Why did Zorn and JC perfomance decline as they gained experience through the season? The team faded when Portis did. I really believe the team and coaches relied to heavily on Portis.

Yeah the writing was on the wall. 2 years ago portis finished season on IR, last year he led the league in carries (and those were some tough hard carries late in the season), then this year we rode portis into the ground not using betts enough in the first half.

i guess were just trying to get our moneys worth. lol

go skins!!

[DieHardSkin]

The D.C. Police are cracking down on speeders heading into Washington .....
For the first offense, they give you two Skins tickets...
If you get stopped a second time, they make you use them.


Q. What do you call 47 millionaires sitting around a TV watching the Super
Bowl?

A. The Washington Redskins.


Q. What do the Washington Redskins and Billy Graham have in common?

A. They both can make 70,000 people stand up and yell 'Jesus Christ'.


Q. How do you keep a Redskin out of your yard?

A. Put up a goal post.


Q.Where do you go in Washington in case of a tornado?

A. To Fedex Field - they never have a touchdown there!


Q. What do you call a Redskin with a Super Bowl ring?

A. A thief.


Q. What's the differen! ce betw een the Washington Redskins and a dollar bill?

A. You can still get four quarters out of a dollar bill.


Q. How many Skins does it take to win a Super Bowl?

A. Nobody knows and we may never find out.


Q. What do the Washington Redskins and opossums have in common?

A. Both play dead at home and get killed on the road.

[BrunellMVP?]

how do we move forward? how do we evoke change?
What "change" needs to be done? Personally, I think we need to limit the owner's influence on the team (to the extent possible) this includes getting him out of the draft room, and removing his pal Vinny Cerrato. We also need a GM. We also need better scouting (or to listen to the ones we have).

We as fans need to take a stand. We cannot tolerate more of the same...
we've seen this show before, the ending is decidedly disappointing.

We've got one more home game- how will we voice our disapproval? I'm not suggesting booing, but there should certainly be a COORDINATED EFFORT to voice our displeasure.
Maybe we should ALL forgo redskin colors and wear black (signifying both the death of the season and hopefully the figurative death of cerrato). Ideas?

[maroonandblack30]

how about just not going to the game?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

For the folks who want to lay blame at Campbell's feet and on Zorn for JC "not improving": JC's QB rating last year was 77.6, he was sacked 21 times in 16 games (1.31 / gm). JC's QB rating this year is 85.7 and he's been sacked 34 times in 14 games (2.43 / gm).

Do some research and STOP with the JC sucks arguments.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by maroonandblack30

how about just not going to the game?

Agree. 100%

[over the mountain]

^^^ i dont think the argument for or against JC starts and stops with qb rating and number of sacks. by doing that you might be inviting someone to post JC's win-loss record (team thing but this stat gets attached to the qbs as we all know) or TDs hes thrown as a slam shut argument against anyone supporting JC.

im just going to put this in my sig: reasonable redskins fans can disagree with each other without one side being stupider than the other.

[jtyreeiii]

Wow, where to start to much info to process.
1) Skins wows are not all Campbell and Zorn. Just as they shouldn't have gotten all the credit when we were hot, they don't deserve all the credit now. As stated earlier Im pretty sure Zorn/Campbell didn't fumble the first catch of the game away and neither of them fumbled it when we had a chance to tie the game either.
2) Blanche said it best "Stats are for loser or fantasy leagues" the last part was mine. Our defense is average at best. Good D's even with a bad O don't give up 10-14 points 5-10 minutes into most games.
3) I think our real problem is Vinney baby. We do not draft well after our 1st pick, when we have it. I don't think much needs to be said about free agency.

I think our first move must be to fire Vinny. Then draft nothing but O & D lineman. Period

[DieHardSkin]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

For the folks who want to lay blame at Campbell's feet and on Zorn for JC "not improving": JC's QB rating last year was 77.6, he was sacked 21 times in 16 games (1.31 / gm). JC's QB rating this year is 85.7 and he's been sacked 34 times in 14 games (2.43 / gm).

Do some research and STOP with the JC sucks arguments.

JC Sucks!!! How many times yesterday on 3rd down did he miss a open reciever?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

^^^ i dont think the argument for or against JC starts and stops with qb rating and number of sacks. by doing that you might be inviting someone to post JC's win-loss record (team thing but this stat gets attached to the qbs as we all know) or TDs hes thrown as a slam shut argument against anyone supporting JC.

im just going to put this in my sig: reasonable redskins fans can disagree with each other without one side being stupider than the other.

TDs thrown is included in the QB rating. I agree stats aren't everything, but they give you a pretty clear indication of trends. Interpretation of stats is important too. If JC had a 77.6 QB rating and was sacked only 1.31 time per game then it's a pretty logical conclusion to say if his QB rating is now 85.7 and he's being sacked 2.43 times per game he's gotten better.

As far as TDs this year he's thrown 13, the teams/QBs mentioned in the first post have thrown 15/15/14 behind better OLs with experienced OCs.

No one is calling anyone stupid, but to ignore facts and statisitics and call those that have facts and statistics to back them up and support Zorn/Campbell "excuse makers"....well, it is what it is.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

For the folks who want to lay blame at Campbell's feet and on Zorn for JC "not improving": JC's QB rating last year was 77.6, he was sacked 21 times in 16 games (1.31 / gm). JC's QB rating this year is 85.7 and he's been sacked 34 times in 14 games (2.43 / gm).

Do some research and STOP with the JC sucks arguments.

last year we had alot of max protect line schemes going on which is a good reason why the sacks were low last year under gibbs. this year zorn brought in a new spread out offense in which we didnt need extra blockers b/c the qb would be getting the ball out quicker and before pressure could get to him, some call it a 3 step drop. JC does not have the ability to read a D and know where he wants to go with the ball, add to that his long delivery that starts down by his hip and you have a qb who takes alot of punishment and cant flourish under this system.

^^^ not exactly what i believe but is there something irrational or stupid that i said? can we agree that there is more than enough on both sides of the JC debate to allow for honest discussion instead telling people to "STOP" with the JC arguments?

go skins!!!