Cerrato Vaguely Explains Draft Strategy (with Questionable Evidence)

[Defensewins]

Vinny being called an idiot is about as specific as you can get. No gray area in that statement.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Vinny being called an idiot is about as specific as you can get. No gray area in that statement.

Oh my god, Smootsmack works for Vinny. lol. He's changing the topic sentence on purpose in order to facilitate a more reasonable responce to his boss. lol.

see my point ^ it's already effecting firstdown. lol.

[MrJL]

That is the exact opposite of logic. If you have a position that isn't a need, and then you draft someone at that position because they're the best available THAT is the position you end up with a glut at.

As for the stats on Merling and Campbell he really isn't that far off in a 16 game season. He might not have looked at the stat sheets for a couple of weeks is all.

[firstdown]

Cerrato: You know, I think Calais has like 11 tackles

OK so if your not sure of the numbers you say you think so what is the big deal with what he said. He did not state these as facts.

[SBXVII]

Dirtbag, good post. even though some will say it's easy to look back and say who we should have picked.

Is our D-line salvagable or are we going to be picking new personel? I guess Snyder has to sit down and decide how much change we need and how many new people we will need to bring in on the D line in order to get production. If we are going to bring in 1-2 players in the offseason then I presume we keep Blache and his scheme. If we are going out and getting anymore then that to beef up the D line then I probably would change to a 3-4 which has been doing the past few seasons and hard to figure out where the blitz is coming from.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I think it's funny that, prior to the draft, nearly everyone on this board agreed in the Pioli principle of drafting the best player available. Now that it appears that we need linemen, most people seem to have done a 180. For the record, I've always believed in the "blended" model whereby you take the best player available at a position of need.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I think it's funny that, prior to the draft, nearly everyone on this board agreed in the Pioli principle of drafting the best player available. Now that it appears that we need linemen, most people seem to have done a 180. For the record, I've always believed in the "blended" model whereby you take the best player available at a position of need.

I remember after the first day of the draft I was pissed, with most of my immediate day 1 thoughts being placed in the Kareem Moore thread (you can see it if you click on the link to the original post on the quotes I placed at the bottom). I couldn't believe we went after three receivers when we had needs elsewhere.

Funny thing was my friend who watched the draft with me wasn't to pleased either saying that his team (Falcons) gave up to much to get back into the first round. Eventually I decided to drink the kool aid and give Vinny's BPA explanation a chance to prove itself. Since then I regret the decision but Sheriff is right about the 180's. A lot of us have done a 180, even though mines is more like a 360. At the very least I have a history of lobbying for us to build up front as seen partly in my last mock the day before the draft as well as the various other lineman that I was hoping we'd take a chance on. Of course this mock was based in part on what I honestly thought the team was going to do based on pre-draft rumors and visits, but it also included a few personal preferences.

http://www.thewarpath.net/442502-post302.html

Either way I think a lot of us should take this season as a leason and make sure we as fans no longer tolerate our front office constant neglect of our offensive and defensive lines in favor of players at sexier positions like Reciever.

Also thanks for the props XXVI.

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

No offense but who cares, the team threw the draft. Dan Snyders going to have to learn the hard way that you don't win with the passing game. Sorry man, not towards you it's just right now I don't really care, and I'm kind of pissed that I put so much faith into the braintrust of my favorite team.

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

I actually didn't mind the Fred Davis pick. My two biggest fears right now as a Redskin fan is loosing Cooley or Samuals to injury. I just don't know why they want to wait so long to adress the line. I mean it's not like they have a track record of finding good offensive lineman in the 4th 5th and 6th rounds.

Also I think that with the way things are going they'll take Josh Johnson with one of their next two picks. After that they'll hopefully take an O-Lineman and then they'll draft Marcus Dixon in the 6th round. 7th round we'll probably see a corner and maybe the Safety Kareem Moore. Anyway I know the drafts not over but still I don't like the idea of drafting 3 pass catchers.

Though it will be fun to see them sub guys in and out to create mismatches.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I think it's funny that, prior to the draft, nearly everyone on this board agreed in the Pioli principle of drafting the best player available. Now that it appears that we need linemen, most people seem to have done a 180. For the record, I've always believed in the "blended" model whereby you take the best player available at a position of need.

Not me.
I am neither a "needs" or a "best athlete available" draft theory person.
There are a lot less big (in size) athletes in our population. There are a lot less quality athletes that are 6'4" to 6'7" and 300 pounds then there are 5'9' to 6'4" and 220 pounds athletes in our population. Lineman are in big pileups and can get hurt more frequently, so it is important to have good backups.
I believe in drafting defense and size (O & D lineman)first, when you can. You can always trade a quality defensive player or lineman and get value in return.
There are always quality skill position players available every off season, but there are not many quality lineman or defensive players, they are a hot commodity.
You do not draft a punter or a kicker.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I think it's funny that, prior to the draft, nearly everyone on this board agreed in the Pioli principle of drafting the best player available. Now that it appears that we need linemen, most people seem to have done a 180. For the record, I've always believed in the "blended" model whereby you take the best player available at a position of need.

But didn't the Patriots "need" a linebacker? Vrabel and Bruschi are ancient. They did need a linebacker, so they got Jerod Mayo.

Just like we needed a cornerback in the 2005 draft. Champ was gone, and Smoot was in Minnesota. So we drafted Carlos Rogers.

You can't ignore needs, that's for sure.

[bedlamVR]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

But didn't the Patriots "need" a linebacker? Vrabel and Bruschi are ancient. They did need a linebacker, so they got Jerod Mayo.

Just like we needed a cornerback in the 2005 draft. Champ was gone, and Smoot was in Minnesota. So we drafted Carlos Rogers.

You can't ignore needs, that's for sure.

Varbel is old but in 2007 he was a monster having one of the best years of his career posting 12.5 sacks, Bruschi was the soul of that defense but yes LB is a position that needed depth the starters were mostly all returning and the Pats have a history of being able to pick up older LBs and get somthing out of them ... But also you could just as easily argue that having lost Gay and Samuels they should have gone CB first if they picked soley on need but picked up Mayo a little early possibly because he was the BPA when they picked ...

[Drift Reality]

I honestly think it's sad there is nothing that can be done about a terrible owner. I wish there was some democratic system through which NFL owners could somehow be voted out of the league if they were deemed incompetent. I guess there would be too much turnover in the NFL for that to happen.

[SBXVII]

Since every other team was raiding our practice squad why can't we simply raid other teams practice squad and fill these needs? unless it all boils down to CAP reasons?

I know some will say they are on the practice squad for a reason. but I'm talking about looking at teams that have an over abundance of talent at O-line or D-line. ie; Bucs for D-line and Eagles for O-line. Perhaps looking at other teams for these same positions.

[bedlamVR]

I STILL like this 2008 draft even though so many "fans" want to bitch and whine about it come week 14 . I actually think it is funny in a way how Vinny calls out the "fans" by saying if we selected a DE like Merling or Campbell ad they had the same production here as they had in their teams, then I can imagine the response ...

[Quote random guy] I cannot believe we took this bum Merling at 21 ! He hasn't started more than 2 games . Vinny is an idiot especially when you think the Falcons were dangling three (3!) second round picks for our 21 - we could have seriously upgraded our WRs which must be the worst in the league , I meen we could have got Devin Thomas and someone like Malcom Kelly with those picks .. I meen this is the WCO we NEED big receivers and who have we got a Giants PS reject and McNobody..Vinny has to go Snyder is to blame ...etc etc [/Quote Random guy]

Now given the fact that no one in our FO can see into the future you have to go off how the players play in collage . It is so much easier to guess who is going to be good 14 weeks into a season rather than on draft day ...

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

I STILL like this 2008 draft even though so many "fans" want to bitch and whine about it come week 14 . I actually think it is funny in a way how Vinny calls out the "fans" by saying if we selected a DE like Merling or Campbell ad they had the same production here as they had in their teams, then I can imagine the response ...

[Quote random guy] I cannot believe we took this bum Merling at 21 ! He hasn't started more than 2 games . Vinny is an idiot especially when you think the Falcons were dangling three (3!) second round picks for our 21 - we could have seriously upgraded our WRs which must be the worst in the league , I meen we could have got Devin Thomas and someone like Malcom Kelly with those picks .. I meen this is the WCO we NEED big receivers and who have we got a Giants PS reject and McNobody..Vinny has to go Snyder is to blame ...etc etc [/Quote Random guy]

Now given the fact that no one in our FO can see into the future you have to go off how the players play in collage . It is so much easier to guess who is going to be good 14 weeks into a season rather than on draft day ...

Okay, clearly you're a Vinny defender. And I love how you put the word "fans" in quotes -- as if to imply that those who criticize the front office and their draft selections are really imposters who are only posing as Redskin fans.

I'd like to ask you though, what is it about Vinny Cerrato and his track record as a personnel guy that you are so eager to defend?

[bedlamVR]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Okay, clearly you're a Vinny defender. And I love how you put the word "fans" in quotes -- as if to imply that those who criticize the front office and their draft selections are really impostors who are only posing as Redskin fans.

I'd like to ask you though, what is it about Vinny Cerrato and his track record as a personnel guy that you are so eager to defend?

I do put "fans" in quotes because there are so many "fans" who just like to kick their team when they are down .. and my god it is easy to do just pile on. I have stopped posting on Extremehissyfitohmygoshithinkihavehurtmymanginaasb adasthisteamsucksSkins message board because that is all that is there .

Larry Micheals - often seen as a propagandist for the FO said something interesting and he called out the fans in a recent radio show and he was right to do so . It is easy to hate on your team when things are going badly, say your going to burn your merchandise never watch another down etc etc that doesn't make you a fan ... fan is shortened from the word fanatic from fanaticism as defined as

"Fanaticism is an emotion of being filled with excessive, uncritical zeal, particularly for an extreme religious or political cause or in some cases sports, or with an obsessive enthusiasm for a pastime or hobby. Philosopher George Santayana defines fanaticism as "redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim"[1]; according to Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". By either description the fanatic displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.

The difference between a fan and a fanatic is that while both have an overwhelming liking or interest in a given subject, behaviour of a fanatic will be viewed as violating prevailing social norms, while that of a fan will not violate those norms "

Fanaticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Essentially I would expect a fan to stand behind his team no matter what ... that separates fans from guys who just watch football on a sunday/monday. I am in the UK I stay up late to watch the Skins games when I can I track down game files on the internet I spend (too much) time and effort following the team I support the Redskins and all of their players and have done so since 1984 ... I don't enjoy being lumped into with people who have nothing better to do on a Sunday so watch the game ... so yes I do put "fans" in quotations


When we were 6-2 we had posters saying stuff like "Jim Zorn is excellent, Jason Campbell is fantastic everything is wonderful", and now we are 7-7 people are saying " everything sucks we are the worst team in the league Jim Zorn has no place in the NFL and Jason Campbell couldn't start for divison II collage team ..etc etc" The problem I have with that is it is the same "fans" ... fair weather knee jerk idiots who have as much right to call themselves fans as I do to call myself a hedgehog ...