Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Excellent observation! Let's hope the JC haters seen that

Let's not forget that Ryan's a rookie. I think most fans would have been euphoric about Campbell's season if he was just a rookie. And if Ryan plateaus or regresses in the next few years, Falcons fans will skewer him just Campbell gets skewered here on a regular basis

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Two points (well maybe three). Every analyst has clearly stated Flacco works in the simplest system possible and nothing like a WC. Baltimore runs behind a much superior o-line to ours and then Flacco gets to throw downfield here and there to the open receiver. Extreme simplicity is the theme. Pennington is tried and trued vet and while some may disagree I've always thought he was a very smart QB... so he did well in a new system that has some excellent weapons. No surprise. And for Matt Ryan... carried by a healthy RB and o-line all year. Did you watch yesterday's game? W/o Turner burning it up Ryan looked like just another rookie - held the ball forever (as JC has the tendency in our brand new system), struggled w/ accuracy, and IMO he rushed several throws.

Good points. I'll add a couple -

Flacco throws a much better and more accurate deep ball than Campbell, so when he does get a shot to throw downfield, he doesn't sqaunder it (how bad did Campbell overthrow ARE against the 49ers... would have been a TD). Campbell needs to put more air under the ball. Flacco also seems to have much better pocket-awareness. He steps up in the pocket, while Campbell gets balls tipped, because he doesn't.

Pennington - He's always been accurate, but he's taken his knocks much like Campbell. I think the main difference is coaching. Case in point, the Fins marched down the field on their first drive today without completing a single pass to a wide receiver. Zorn should have gotten the RBs more involved in the passing game and played Betts and Cartwright more often. Look what the Chargers did yesterday throwing to their RBs and Tight Ends. DOH! - Pennington just threw his third INT.

Ryan - yes, the O line and running game helped, but he demonstrated to me that he will be a better QB than Campbell. He's a rookie, while Campbell is in his 4th season. Ryan helped the pass protection by making quick decisions and getting the ball out quickly. He also put up good numbers with the same receivers Vick almost had run out of town (remember Peerless Price and all the talk of TO going to ATL, because White and Jenkins weren't that good?).

All that said, I think Campbell might have done just as well on all 3 teams. But he played for a team that needed him to do more and he either couldn't or didn't. He should have gone down swinging against the 49ers (with nothing on the line), but he turned in 156 yards.

We should know for sure next year.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by dmek25

the one thing that is starting to bother me Flacco, Ryan, and Pennington. all three of those guys stepped into NEW systems and had successful years.

The Falcons and Ravens both changed their offenses. The Dolphins also run a new system but, their offensive coordinator Dan Henning was Chad Penningtons OC/QB coach with the Jets during his rookie year so the offense was new to the team not to the QB.*

Smith, Harbaugh and Sparano are rookie HC but each has a *veteran
offensive coordinator/playcaller and a QB coach.* This IMO allows them time to focus attention on the big picture of being a HC. Zorn has a 1st time OC who is new to the offense that Zorn is bringing in, Zorn doesn't have a QB coach but leans on 1st time offensive assistant Chris Meidt from Div. III St.Olaf.

Also all 3 teams are *strong on the offensive line despite injuries,
all 3 teams commit to running the ball, and protecting their respective QBs.*

Comparing apples and oranges.
Look i like Matt Ryan but put Campbell on the Falcons and IMO you would get similiar if not better production then Ryan.

Did you stop to compare their situations?

Matt Ryan has a veteran OC and playcaller in Mike Mularkey. Mularkey runs a vertical play-action heavy passing attack, as opposed to JC who is in the 1st year of the WCO which takes at 3 years to master JC has a 1st time playcaller Zorn and a 1st time OC Sherman Smith (who is new to the WCO himself.)

Matt Ryan has been only been sacked 17 times he's the 8th least sacked QB in the NFL. Campbell has been sacked 38 times tied for 4th most.

Falcons have the #2 ranked rushing offense in the NFL which drives their play-action heavy passing attack. Redskins have the 8th ranked rushing offense but the WCO doesn't feature alot of play-action.

Having Mike Mularkey on staff is IMHO the number one reason for Ryan's success.

Mike Mularkey comes to the Falcons with a vast amount of coaching and playing experience in the NFL, which includes two years as a Head Coach (Buffalo Bills) and two stints as an Offensive Coordinator — one with the Pittsburgh Steelers (2001–2003), and the other with the Miami Dolphins (2006). He also forged a successfull playing career that spanned nine years in the League as a tight end for the Minnesota Vikings (1983–1988) and Pittsburgh Steelers (1989–1991).

Atlanta Falcons | People | Mike Mularkey

*Also they have a fulltime QB coach in Bill Musgrave. Zorn is JC's QB coach which is great, but Zorn is also the HC and therefore can't give JC fulltime attention therefore Zorn relies on 1st time NFL assistant Chris Meidt (Div. II HC) to help out with QB coach duties.

the new system argument seems to be the main sticky point on why Campbell hasn't stepped up to the next level of qbacking. it really carries little, to no weight

ESPN - Hasselbeck thriving in West Coast offense - NFL
^^^John Clayton article
SEATTLE -- Mike Holmgren professes that it takes three years to make a quarterback in the West Coast offense, and it takes five years for a West Coast quarterback to become a very good one.

"I thought Jason would eventually play well under Jim Zorn," ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Ron Jaworski says. "I didn't think he'd play this well, this early.

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Let's put some perspective on this:

Matt Hasselbeck's first 3 seasons working with Zorn and Holmgren in Seattle:

2001: 176/321 54.8%, 2,023 yards, 7 TD, 8 INT, 70.9 rating
2002: 267/419 63.7%, 3,075 yards, 15 TD, 10 INT, 87.8 rating
2003: 313/513 61.0%, 3,841 yards, 26 TD, 15 INT, 88.8 rating

And here's what JC did in year 1 with Zorn:

2008: 315/506 62.3%, 3,245 yards, 13 TD, 6 INT, 84.3 rating

I think it's only fair we see how JC does in year 2 before any hard conclusions are made as to whether he can be a quality long term answer here or not. JC is already on par with what Hasselbeck did in year 2.

[The Goat]

Thanks to 30Gut for a very informative/important post.

Just want to reiterate that it is Zorn as HC and QB coach that gives me more confidence in JC than anything else. My intuition is Zorn knows exactly what he wants in his QB, he knows what to look for, and already he's said Jason can be successful. Sure Zorn could be wrong but I think his history as a QB and QB coach indicates this is an area of real expertise. Also worth mentioning JC is an extremely hard worker/studier.

The two legitimate criticisms of Jason that may be impossible for Zorn to "coach" IMO are leadership and accuracy. I believe the leadership is coming. Have to give JC the benefit of the doubt on this one because he started here w/ the league's most outspoken RB and a coaching staff/FO that has always seemed to cow-toe to CP and his antics. Again just guessing here but Portis' antics regarding Zorn probably took him out of the leadership role. As the QB Jason is the natural leader and now is his time to establish this - I think we saw hints of it in SanFran from Jason's decision to move the ball on his own and his show of emotion. More of this to come I would guess.
That leaves the accuracy question. So many QBs and coaches have said you got it or you don't. JC does really struggle to be accurate w/ the long ball and it's a real concern. To his credit Jason got more accurate this year on short/intermediate passes. He did a nice job of getting more of his passes down to our shorty's @ WR. Hopefully this is indicative of his ability to improve accuracy in general.

... Jason throws such a nice deep shot - some describe it as pretty even - it would be a GD travesty for him not be able to guide it for completion on a regular basis.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by The Goat

1.) Addressing the offensive line must be the #1 priority. Actually tough to know where to begin here. Just consider for a moment the '07 unit, which endured an uncanny series of injuries, gave up 28 total sacks, while this season's relatively healthy unit gave up 38 total sacks. Certainly young talent is needed; however, am I the only fan wondering whether it's time for a new position coach? Absolutely no disrespect to Buges. Can't even imagine what he endured over the course of the season w/ his daughter passing away, but I wonder whether he is looking beyond football at this point (and rightfully so).

Agreed, though I'm sure Buges still has it in him. It being the ability that is.

2) Shawn Springs will not be a Redskin in '09. Way too much time on the sideline, and his final showing was anything but impressive. Also, consider the cap hit.

Man he was money at the beginning of the season, unfortunately, he was too much money for a sideline player.

3) Smoot... holy crap! I can't believe this is the same player I watched pick off passes left and right opposite Bailey. He's gone or there's some kind of conspiracy.

He's alright for a nickel

... implications of Springs/Smoot: Hall will be signed and Rogers retained. I think the rumors surrounding Rogers departure must be bogus. The guy's only real issue was the hoof-hands and he finally makes a pretty impressive INT to end the season. C'mon, we have to keep him. But we need a third corner, and here's where cutting Torrence was a mistake IMO.

We definitely need to keep Rogers, especially if Springs and/or Smoot is gone. Need to find out if Blache is dogging him and what's up with that. If you start putting D. Hall onto number 1 WR's all year long we're not gonna be nearly as happy with Hall. All CB's should have mandatory practice with Collins and/or Colt, more than last year where it was only mentioned during one week.

4) Stan Hixon must go. Nuff said.

Someone's gotta take the fall. Is it his fault? Maybe. Should we find out? Yep.

5) Campbell will be money next year (mark it, dude). He's started coming into his own. I loved the way he took off for yards when everybody was covered. But most importantly, Zorn has committed to developing JC into a great QB. JC will be much improved therefor, so long as we make some smart personnel/staff changes, our offense will be much improved.

Hail.

Here's to hoping. I think that he will be, especially if Zorn lets off of the reigns a bit, especially when we have some sort of momentum going. Campbell looked good when he was pretty much running his 2 min drills year before last, if we were getting past the markers at least.

[markymark]

any word on when they well start resigning and restructuring our players?

[FlyWonderful23]

i agree. be like the nature of water...