Marvin Harrison anyone?

[redskins1974]

the latest training camp update says devin thomas' hamstring is keeping him out of practice and m. kelley is also out. unbelievable. another year of no production by these two? we need a solid veteran WR - Boldin or Harrison.... thoughts?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

the latest training camp update says devin thomas' hamstring is keeping him out of practice and m. kelley is also out. unbelievable. another year of no production by these two? we need a solid veteran WR - Boldin or Harrison.... thoughts?

My thoughts are: you're overreacting and potentially nuts.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

the latest training camp update says devin thomas' hamstring is keeping him out of practice and m. kelley is also out. unbelievable. another year of no production by these two? we need a solid veteran WR - Boldin or Harrison.... thoughts?

I think you need to calm down chief.

#1 it's not training camp, it's mini camp.

#2 Kelly was expected to be out, not news.

#3 Thomas tweaked his hammy and was held out as a precaution. It wasn't a pull, he was just a little sore. If this was the regular season it might not even be news. Since it's May, there's no use in risking further injury so you take him out.

[redskins1974]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

My thoughts are: you're overreacting and potentially nuts.

Gtripp- why am i nuts - give some reasoning instead of just name calling

this was similar news we were hearing last year with these guys. its probably why we're looking at the veteran WR's currently being discussed in other threads.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think you need to calm down chief.

#1 it's not training camp, it's mini camp.

#2 Kelly was expected to be out, not news.

#3 Thomas tweaked his hammy and was held out as a precaution. It wasn't a pull, he was just a little sore. If this was the regular season it might not even be news. Since it's May, there's no use in risking further injury so you take him out.

Word and Double Word. Ideally, you'd like to see them out on the field as much as possible, but like you say Kelly was expected to be out anyway and it doesn't sound like Thomas' injury is all that serious. I think Moss is out too right? (but he's probably just pulling a Portis, if you know what I mean). Either way not a major concern at this point. And to make the leap from they're not participating in mini-camp in May to thinking this means they won't produce during the regular season seems like quite a stretch.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

Gtripp- why am i nuts - give some reasoning instead of just name calling

this was similar news we were hearing last year with these guys. its probably why we're looking at the veteran WR's currently being discussed in other threads.

You aren't nuts. Yet. You are totally overreacting.

I understand that this is the same issue that dogged Kelly last year, but you have to understand media bias: that is, anytime that one of our second year receivers misses a practice, or screws up an assignment, the fact that they have had an injury history is going to be instantly brought to the forefront of the debate, even when it would make otherwise little sense to bring it up.

Seriously, who cares if they miss a mini-camp? It's not like they are predetermined to have an unproductive first four games of the season because of it.

There's cause for concern regarding both Kelly and Thomas, but nothing that occurs in mini camp is going to make them any more or less likely to fail this season.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You aren't nuts. Yet. You are totally overreacting.

I understand that this is the same issue that dogged Kelly last year, but you have to understand media bias: that is, anytime that one of our second year receivers misses a practice, or screws up an assignment, the fact that they have had an injury history is going to be instantly brought to the forefront of the debate, even when it would make otherwise little sense to bring it up.

Seriously, who cares if they miss a mini-camp? It's not like they are predetermined to have an unproductive first four games of the season because of it.

There's cause for concern regarding both Kelly and Thomas, but nothing that occurs in mini camp is going to make them any more or less likely to fail this season.

Actually it is not quite the same problem that Kelly had last year. Currently he is recovering from microfracture surgery, a surgery intended to fix the problem from last year. We're just metaphorically waiting for the glue to dry right now. It could be that his past problems are completely resolved.

[JoeRedskin]

The microfracture surgery thing concerns me. I have heard of several players undergoing it. I cannot, however, remember any players excelling after it was performed. I may not have been paying attention, but is it still considered a sort of last ditch attempt to save the knee or has it become a more standard practice?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The microfracture surgery thing concerns me. I have heard of several players undergoing it. I cannot, however, remember any players excelling after it was performed. I may not have been paying attention, but is it still considered a sort of last ditch attempt to save the knee or has it become a more standard practice?

I wonder the same thing, too, but Matty posted this nugget on the "WR core" thread:

Kellen Winslow had microfracture surgery prior to the 2007 season and went on to post 82/1106/5.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I wonder the same thing, too, but Matty posted this nugget on the "WR core" thread:

Kellen Winslow had microfracture surgery prior to the 2007 season and went on to post 82/1106/5.

I too am concerned about microfracture surgery, but in all fairness, he's a TE, not a WR where speed is more important. Also, I had Winslow as my fantasy TE, and I remember sources like rotowire saying he seemed to have lost a step. It's a lot easier to hide any "steps lost" as a TE than a WR. Yes, he put up good numbers, but again...TE.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

the latest training camp update says devin thomas' hamstring is keeping him out of practice and m. kelley is also out. unbelievable. another year of no production by these two? we need a solid veteran WR - Boldin or Harrison.... thoughts?

Well, I think there is certainly overreaction here...but I understand where it's coming from. We are tired of having lack luster performances from the WR spot...and let's face it, after Moss, we are thin at best. We have two youngsters that may or may not come around, ARE is nothing special at all...and Thrash is a great redskin (lots of heart) but isn't what he used to be.

[JoeRedskin]

From wikipedia, it only mentions basketball players: Microfracture surgery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Use in professional sports
There have been many notable professional athletes who have undergone the procedure. Partially because of the high level of stress placed on the knees by these athletes, the surgery is not a panacea and results have been mixed. Many players' careers effectively end despite the surgery. However, some players such as Jason Kidd, Steve Yzerman, John Stockton,Kenyon Martin, Antonio McDyess and Zach Randolph have been able to return at or near their pre-surgery form while players Brian Grant, Chris Webber, Allan Houston and Penny Hardaway never regained their old form. Others such as Jamal Mashburn and Terrell Brandon never recovered and retired. Portland Trail Blazers rookie Greg Oden underwent the procedure in early September 2007 and missed the entire 2007-2008 NBA season. At only 19 at the time of the surgery, doctors are confident that he will return to at or near full strength by the 2008-2009 season. Rockets Superstar Tracy McGrady also under went microfracture surgery, doctors are confident that the 2 time scoring champion will return to full strength.

In October 2005, young star Amare Stoudemire of the NBA's Phoenix Suns underwent one of the highest-profile microfracture surgeries to date. He returned to the court in March 2006 and initially appeared to have made a full recovery, but subsequently started feeling stiffness in both knees (his right knee had been overcompensating for the injured left knee). He and the team doctor decided he needed more time to rehab and he did not return until the 2006-2007 NBA season. During the 2006-2007 season, Stoudemire returned to form, averaging 20.4 points and 9.6 rebounds per game while playing in all 82 regular-season games and the 2007 NBA All-Star Game. His recent success has brought positive publicity to the procedure, further distancing it from a previous reputation as a possible "career death sentence" in the sports world, though he was one of the youngest of the aforementioned players to undergo the surgery."

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

From wikipedia, it only mentions basketball players: Microfracture surgery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Use in professional sports
There have been many notable professional athletes who have undergone the procedure. Partially because of the high level of stress placed on the knees by these athletes, the surgery is not a panacea and results have been mixed. Many players' careers effectively end despite the surgery. However, some players such as Jason Kidd, Steve Yzerman, John Stockton,Kenyon Martin, Antonio McDyess and Zach Randolph have been able to return at or near their pre-surgery form while players Brian Grant, Chris Webber, Allan Houston and Penny Hardaway never regained their old form. Others such as Jamal Mashburn and Terrell Brandon never recovered and retired. Portland Trail Blazers rookie Greg Oden underwent the procedure in early September 2007 and missed the entire 2007-2008 NBA season. At only 19 at the time of the surgery, doctors are confident that he will return to at or near full strength by the 2008-2009 season. Rockets Superstar Tracy McGrady also under went microfracture surgery, doctors are confident that the 2 time scoring champion will return to full strength.

In October 2005, young star Amare Stoudemire of the NBA's Phoenix Suns underwent one of the highest-profile microfracture surgeries to date. He returned to the court in March 2006 and initially appeared to have made a full recovery, but subsequently started feeling stiffness in both knees (his right knee had been overcompensating for the injured left knee). He and the team doctor decided he needed more time to rehab and he did not return until the 2006-2007 NBA season. During the 2006-2007 season, Stoudemire returned to form, averaging 20.4 points and 9.6 rebounds per game while playing in all 82 regular-season games and the 2007 NBA All-Star Game. His recent success has brought positive publicity to the procedure, further distancing it from a previous reputation as a possible "career death sentence" in the sports world, though he was one of the youngest of the aforementioned players to undergo the surgery."

According to this then, it seems the youth factor is of the most importance. Kelly certainly has that going for him.

Just to play devil's advocate, Stoudemire dropped almost 6 points a game despite raising his FT% and FG% after the surgery...meaning he took fewer chances, or couldn't take as many due to the slowed knees. (keep in mind he had a league high 795 FT attempts before the injury and only 585 after while playing in all 82 games.) He also dropped significantly in assists, and dropped in blocks as well as raised his turnovers.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't A.S. miss about 30 games this year due to his knee?
Don't get me wrong, he certainly has returned to be a great player, but I would argue he is not his old form.

[MTK]

We also should keep in mind Kelly didn't need the full surgery. Only a part of his knee received the microfracture procedure.

Wide receiver Malcolm Kelly said he plans to be fully cleared to participate in June's organized team activities and was relieved that his latest knee surgery was not as extensive as first thought. Kelly, who had a history of knee issues in college and as a rookie last year, underwent microfracture surgery in February, with doctors having to do less repair work than they'd anticipated.

"They thought they were going to have to microfracture the whole thing," Kelly said. "But when they went in they found it had healed up a lot more than they thought, so they just had to microfracture a little part. And I actually had a little bone that they shaved down a little bit, and that really helped out a lot of the stuff. When they went and did that and finally fixed it instead of just trying to clean it up, like the first time, it helped out a whole lot."

A procedure that would have involved his entire knee would have put him months behind where he is now. "When you have to do the whole knee there's a bigger risk," Kelly said.

[Ruhskins]

According to Peter King, Marvin Harrison may be retiring...

Peter King (SI_PeterKing) on Twitter