Who Will You Vote For..?

[Big C]

i was just saying that that guys' argument did not prove anything because north korea was just as bad in that regerd. he said that sadaam was killing his own ppl, and in north korea they are basically doin the same...thats my point

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Big C

i was just saying that that guys' argument did not prove anything because north korea was just as bad in that regerd. he said that sadaam was killing his own ppl, and in north korea they are basically doin the same...thats my point

Well, not quite... We said that SH had used WMD's on his own population which, to my knowledge and despite its otherwise terrible human rights issues, N.Korea has not done.

More importantly - the use of WMD's on his own population and lack of basic human rights was only one part of the equation presented by SH's Iraq. Importantly, prior to the invasion, SH had demonstrated his willingness to make war on other countries in the region. Further, in doing so, he was once again willing to deploy and use WMD's. As I said earlier, N.Korea has demonstrated none of these last characteristics.

So while, yes, there are similarities between SH's Iraq and the current situation in N.Korea - There are also significant differences as to the threat posed by each. To point to the similarities, while ignoring the differences, and proclaim our logic faulty is, itself, false logic.

All your post does is highlight Bush's diplomatic flexibility and his ability to deal appropriately with the threats presented by differing situations (LOL, Okay - I just threw that in there to make Matty and the rest of you lefties gag!)

[That Guy]

Did you know that the Saudis have 1 trillion dollars in our banks & if they ever decided to remove it our economy would be shattered. Call it what you want, but I call it extortion.

you know who has even more of our money? the japanese... lots and lots of countries invest heavily in the US because of its stability... I don't really see anyone taking out that kind of money because they'd lose all the compounded interest collection, the transfer would be a total PitA, and there's no gaurantee the next holder will be any better...

the economy of such things as buying and selling goods would generally be unaffected, since this is bank money the most likely effects would be higher car and home loan rates (and could affect corporate borrowing, but companies operating on profit wouldn't be hit too badly)...

[That Guy]

Big C, i never said osama and saddam were EVER in cahoots... and again, N korea is horrible on human rights, but it has not made war on neighboring countries or used WMDs, has not broken war sanctions to buy military equipment, and has not TRIED TO KILL AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT etc...

Saddam presented a much clearer and immediate military threat, whether the invasion was justified or not is up for debate, but iraq has been (in near history) a much greater overt threat, whereas korea has just talked the talk...

[ChounsMan]

READ THIS & REALIZE

Sage Francis - Make Shift Patroit Lyrics

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out Of Stock
Hang Myself...Half Mast

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop is Out of Stock
I hang myself...via live telecast

Coming live from my own funeral...the beautiful weather offered
a nice shine
Which is suitable for a full view of a forever altered skyline
It's times like these I freestyle biased opinions every other
sentence
My journalistic ethics slip when I pass them off as objective
'Don't gimme that ethical shit.'
I've got exclusive, explicit images to present to impressionable
American kids
And it's time to show this world how big our edifice is!

That's exactly what they attacked when a typically dark skinned
Disney villain
Used civilians against civilians and charged the trojan horses
into our buildings
Using commercial aviation as instruments of destruction
Pregnant women couldn't protect their children
Wheelchairs were stairway obstructions
Now I have to back petal...from the shower of glass and metal
Wondering how after it settles we'll find who provided power to
radical rebels
The Melting Pot seems to be calling the kettle black when it
boils over
But only on our own soil so the little boy holds a toy soldier..
And waits for the suit and tie to come home. We won't wait 'til
he's older
Before we destroy hopes for a colder war to end
'Now get a close up of his head...'

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out Of Stock
Hang Myself...Half Mast

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop is Out of Stock
I hang myself while the stock markets crash

The city is covered in inches of muck
I see some other pictures of victims are up
Grieving mothers are thinking their children are stuck
Leaping lovers are making decisions to jump
While holding hands...to escape the brutal heat
Sometimes in groups of the three
The fall out goes far beyond the toxic cloud where people look
like debris
But all they saw after all was said...beyond the talking heads

Was bloody dust with legs looking like the walking dead calling
for meds
Hospitals are overwhelmed. volunteers need to go the hell home
Moments of silence for fire fighters were interupted by cell
phones
Who's going to make that call to increase an unknown death toll?
It's the one we rally behind
He's got a megaphone...and he's promising to make heads roll
So we cheer him on, but asbestos is affecting our breath control
The less we know...the more they fabricate...the easier it is to
sell souls
An addictive 24 hour candle light vigil in TV's
Freedom WILL be defended...at the cost of civil liberties
Viewers are glued to television screens
Stuck... cause lots of things seem too sick
I use opportunities to pluck heart strings for theme music

I'll show you which culture to punp your fist at and what foot
is right to kiss
We don't know who the culprit is yet...but he looks like this
We know who the heros are. Not the xenophobes who act hard
'We taught that dog to squat.
How dare he do that shit in our own back yard!'

They happened to scar our financial state and char our landscape
Can you count how many times so far I ran back this same damn
tape?
While a camera man creates news and shoves it down our throats
on the West Bank
With a 10 second clip put on constant loop to provoke US angst

So get your tanks and load your guns and hold your sons in a
family huddle
Because even if we win this tug of war and even the
score...humanity struggles
There's a desperate need of blood for what's been uncovered
under the rubble
Some of them dug for answers in the mess...but the rest were
looking for trouble

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop Is Out Of Stock
Hang Myself...Half Mast

Makeshift Patriot
The Flag Shop is Out of Stock
I hang myself, don't waive your rights with your flags

[cpayne5]

About Sage Francis:

"To understand the music you must understand him, and to understand him is something none of us may ever accomplish...but at least we can listen to his records, and what we get out of it is for us."

So what is it that you want us to realize?

[ChounsMan]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

About Sage Francis:

"To understand the music you must understand him, and to understand him is something none of us may ever accomplish...but at least we can listen to his records, and what we get out of it is for us."

So what is it that you want us to realize?

Realize that no matter how tragic 911 was & is, the Bush Administration stands to profit from it. Profit like no other administration has or ever will.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by ChounsMan

Realize that no matter how tragic 911 was & is, the Bush Administration stands to profit from it. Profit like no other administration has or ever will.

Can you point out the part that talks about profiting from 9/11?

As far as profiting from a Presidency, I think the Clintons are doing pretty well with their book deals.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Can you point out the part that talks about profiting from 9/11?

As far as profiting from a Presidency, I think the Clintons are doing pretty well with their book deals.

Or the part that infers it?

[BrunellFan]

From Joseph Farah- who makes a very good point

I didn't vote for George W. Bush in 2000.

Though faced with a dismal choice that year, I chose to sit out the presidential election – even though Bush's opponent, Al Gore, was part of an administration that spent years terrorizing me and other critics of Bill Clinton, using all the awesome power of the federal government.

In fact, ever since 2000, my news organization has been the target of a $165 million lawsuit by Gore's chief fund-raiser in Tennessee. It seems the former vice president and his supporters there believe a devastating 18-part investigative series on Gore's history in his home state contributed mightily to his defeat in Tennessee – and, thus, a loss of electoral votes and the White House.

Still, I couldn't support Bush in 2000 because I did not believe he would govern according to the limits of the U.S. Constitution. That is my minimum standard requirement for support of any candidate for federal office.

Until recently, I was planning to sit out the 2004 presidential election, too, for the same reason.

When it comes to the U.S. Constitution, Bush doesn't get it. He doesn't understand the strict limits on federal authority. He doesn't understand how this sets us apart as a free nation from all others in the world.

However, three years ago, this nation was attacked as it has never been attacked before. We find ourselves in a global conflict with a radical ideology of evil comparable to our titanic battles of the past with Nazism and communism. It's a fight to the finish. It's a fight for our lives. It's a fight that will never end until one side or the other is vanquished.

I have come to the conclusion that, like it or not, Osama bin Laden and his jihadist allies have one short-term goal above all others – defeating George W. Bush at the polls Nov. 2.

A victory by John Kerry, a lifelong appeaser of totalitarianism, would hand the terrorists their biggest morale boost since Sept. 11, 2001. If you doubt what I am saying, look no further than the "endorsement" of Kerry by Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority. Arafat is the father of modern-day Arab terrorism.

So this election for me is not so much about Bush. It's about you. The election has now come down to something very simple. It is your chance to send the terrorists a message. It is your moment to make the terrorists hear from you.

A mandate for Bush will send the terrorists just such a message. It will tell them we have stood up as a nation. It will tell them we will continue to hunt them down – no matter how long it takes and no matter what the cost.

A close election – or, God forbid, a Kerry victory – will actually encourage the terrorists. It will send them the message that you are tired and weary and that your will to fight them to the death is giving out.

Ask yourself today: Will America be safer with Bush or Kerry in the White House?

That's how simple the choice is today. All other considerations merely muddy the water and complicate what is seen by our enemies as a clear choice.

If we were at peace, this might be an opportune moment to consider building a third party. It might be a great chance to protest the choices we have. But we are not at peace. We are at war.

A Kerry victory – or even a close election, decided days or weeks after the vote – will increase exponentially the danger our country faces, the risk to our children, the threat to our way of life.

That's what this election comes down to for me. It's not about Bush. It's not about Kerry. It's about you. It's about the message you send to the enemy – to the beast.

If we rise up Nov. 2 and send the beast a message, we will have taken our most dramatic step toward victory in this global conflict.

This is your moment to make your voice heard – all the way to the caves in Afghanistan, the terrorist cells in Chechnya, the dismal slums of Fallujah and teeming streets of Gaza.

It's time for you to be heard. It's time to fight back. It's time to make your stand.

Vote for George W. Bush Nov. 2.

[That Guy]

the question is, does bush's pre-emptive war strategy endanger us more by over-reaching "taking a stand" to near insanity (at least to some people) ?

not voting for kerry, but just saying...

oh, and now the CIA thinks russia helped moved weaponry out of iraq before the war... (russia's always kinda thought or iraq as its red-headed step child in a way)...

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by That Guy

oh, and now the CIA thinks russia helped moved weaponry out of iraq before the war... (russia's always kinda thought or iraq as its red-headed step child in a way)...

No wonder Russia's intelligence showed they had weapons!

That's almost as funny as the weapons (which Iraq claimed never existed) containers that had French and German writing on them. Imagine that...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BrunellFan

From Joseph Farah- who makes a very good point

I didn't vote for George W. Bush in 2000.

Though faced with a dismal choice that year, I chose to sit out the presidential election – even though Bush's opponent, Al Gore, was part of an administration that spent years terrorizing me and other critics of Bill Clinton, using all the awesome power of the federal government.

In fact, ever since 2000, my news organization has been the target of a $165 million lawsuit by Gore's chief fund-raiser in Tennessee. It seems the former vice president and his supporters there believe a devastating 18-part investigative series on Gore's history in his home state contributed mightily to his defeat in Tennessee – and, thus, a loss of electoral votes and the White House.

Still, I couldn't support Bush in 2000 because I did not believe he would govern according to the limits of the U.S. Constitution. That is my minimum standard requirement for support of any candidate for federal office.

Until recently, I was planning to sit out the 2004 presidential election, too, for the same reason.

When it comes to the U.S. Constitution, Bush doesn't get it. He doesn't understand the strict limits on federal authority. He doesn't understand how this sets us apart as a free nation from all others in the world.

However, three years ago, this nation was attacked as it has never been attacked before. We find ourselves in a global conflict with a radical ideology of evil comparable to our titanic battles of the past with Nazism and communism. It's a fight to the finish. It's a fight for our lives. It's a fight that will never end until one side or the other is vanquished.

I have come to the conclusion that, like it or not, Osama bin Laden and his jihadist allies have one short-term goal above all others – defeating George W. Bush at the polls Nov. 2.

A victory by John Kerry, a lifelong appeaser of totalitarianism, would hand the terrorists their biggest morale boost since Sept. 11, 2001. If you doubt what I am saying, look no further than the "endorsement" of Kerry by Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority. Arafat is the father of modern-day Arab terrorism.

So this election for me is not so much about Bush. It's about you. The election has now come down to something very simple. It is your chance to send the terrorists a message. It is your moment to make the terrorists hear from you.

A mandate for Bush will send the terrorists just such a message. It will tell them we have stood up as a nation. It will tell them we will continue to hunt them down – no matter how long it takes and no matter what the cost.

A close election – or, God forbid, a Kerry victory – will actually encourage the terrorists. It will send them the message that you are tired and weary and that your will to fight them to the death is giving out.

Ask yourself today: Will America be safer with Bush or Kerry in the White House?

That's how simple the choice is today. All other considerations merely muddy the water and complicate what is seen by our enemies as a clear choice.

If we were at peace, this might be an opportune moment to consider building a third party. It might be a great chance to protest the choices we have. But we are not at peace. We are at war.

A Kerry victory – or even a close election, decided days or weeks after the vote – will increase exponentially the danger our country faces, the risk to our children, the threat to our way of life.

That's what this election comes down to for me. It's not about Bush. It's not about Kerry. It's about you. It's about the message you send to the enemy – to the beast.

If we rise up Nov. 2 and send the beast a message, we will have taken our most dramatic step toward victory in this global conflict.

This is your moment to make your voice heard – all the way to the caves in Afghanistan, the terrorist cells in Chechnya, the dismal slums of Fallujah and teeming streets of Gaza.

It's time for you to be heard. It's time to fight back. It's time to make your stand.

Vote for George W. Bush Nov. 2.

So Bush is our hero, our savior?

I think I'm gonna puke

[cpayne5]

Hehe, I think we've found Matty's kryptonite.

[redrock-skins]

Bush is the biggest coward on the planet. Oh yeah, I'm gonna feel real safe with him in charge for another 4 years. No would dare bomb us with him in charge (oh yeah, I forgot they already did on his watch). I'm sure Osama and Al Qaeda will be real scared if Bush is still around. I bet they will just shut down operations and wait for a democrat to take office before they try something.