The Tempered Expectations Thread

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We'll agree to disagree

Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Lol, I was thinking the same thing. I just read her article and was thinking how miserable it must be to be her and look at everything through crap covered glasses.

This is where I see this hire as different from any other one in the past:

-Schottenheimer had stated 3 weeks prior to his hiring that he could never work for someone like Snyder. He was at the point where his legacy as a coach was still very much in question and it seemed (and was noted by Peter King at the time) almost like a money grab. Snyder made him the highest paid coach in the league and he came in trying to make it all about Marty. I remember George Michael a few months back saying that on the 1st day of camp he knew it wasn't going to work. Marty rubbed everyone the wrong way and there was no buffer (more on that in a minute) so the ego clash was immediate and brutal. He took the dictatorial role too seriously (alarms on the doors at camp?) and lost the team. Sure he got them back but it was too late in Dan's eyes.

-Spurrier and Shanahan have no comparison. Little did we know how vastly underprepared Spurrier was to being an NFL coach.

-Gibbs, for as much as we love him around these parts, was also vastly unprepared to be an NFL coach in the 2000's when he was hired. He was away from the game for too long, didn't surround himself with contemporary coaches and it took him a while to get his sea legs. Let's not forget the influence of Vincenzo Ceratto either.

-Zorn, see Spurrier.

With Shanahan, we're getting one of the most respected and accomplished coaches active in the league today, active being a key word!! Although he was out of the league he was never away from the league. He's probably more prepared now than he was while he was coaching because he could focus on 32 teams each week rather than 2. In addition he brings with him one of the hot young coordinators (as opposed to Jack Burns) to run the offense. He's got the buffer in Bruce Allen that Marty lacked. He's not coaching to establish a legacy, he's trying to extend a legacy so rather than overcompensating for past failures (like Marty), he's going to be able to build on what's worked in the past. He also brings the immediate respect of players (unlike Spurrier and Zorn) who have to prove everything to him instead of vice versa.

I think it's going to be a process to turn us into winners but I am assured that it will happen. I don't expect a 10 or 11 win season next year but wouldn't be shocked by it either. For the first time in nearly 20 years we can unequivocally say we've got the best coach in the division, now it's time to get the tools for him to go to work!

This is a great post and basically what I was thinking as well. shanny has the best oportunity to succeded out of the past coaches.


Here is one thought I have kicked around though.

Would you take Shanahan or Josh McDaniels as your coach? Denver choose JM.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The part you bolded did not completely reflect that question that was asked. redskins.com made sure of that.The question clearly mentioned cooke as a mediator. i'll see if i can find a complete transcript with the reporters questions.

I don't doubt it was asked, I was just saying Shanahan didn't mention Snyder being involved. I don't think that part was left off intentionally, the questions were clearly paraphrased.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I don't doubt it was asked, I was just saying Shanahan didn't mention Snyder being involved. I don't think that part was left off intentionally, the questions were clearly paraphrased.

I'm listening to the presser again and will repost verbatim.

Q: "the organization structure you talked about between you and bruce sounded a little bit like what joe gibbs had with bobby bethard and jack kent cooke offering a thought here and there, are there similiarities in that bobby and joe had some good arm wrestling matches with jack arbitrating?

A: "I would say thats a good comparison right there..." Then Shanahan goes on to ramble on about talking with Joe Bugel back in the 1980s. He completely side-stepped the most important part of the question. He eventually got back to part of the original question, saying that Bruce is the best guy at what he does and that he wants to get the best players, coaches etc. possible.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.

What if he simply asks MS or Allen about getting Ocho. I don't think he has "made someone" go out and get a player, but I could be wrong. I don't see why he can't discuss things, as long as Allen/MS are not intimidated into "ds wants we go get thinking" which is what VC too often was accused of, and closer to the problem. I think DS can come and discuss anything, and BA/MS will simply listen respectfully and make the decision they think is best. It wouldn't shock me if once in a while, DS even made valuable suggestions that they decide to use.

[Player_HTTR]

I like to call it cautious optimism. I am holding out full-fledged homerism until I see the coaching staff put in place and some roster moves made. I don't have any specific moves in mind but if we can get some draft picks for one or a few underachieving vetrans (Landry, Portis, Rogers, (maybe Campbell but I wouldn't hate it if he was back)) and the ones we don't part with get a fire lit under them.

Not looking for 9-7 or even 8-8 at this point, anything better than 0-6 in division and being consistently competative.

Our secondary needs some serious coaching up, sorry Jerry please go somewhere else, they can't cover anything but their faces in shame and tackle like an epileptic penguin(looking at you Landry). Unless somone is half a step out of bounds running away Landry can't land a solid hit since being mowed over by BJ.

We all know the OL problems, I am not worried that they and the rest of the "offensive" issue will be adressed now.

I digressed a little there and combined about three posts into one, I am happy with new direction and hope my renewd faith isn't crushed once again.

[Longtimefan]

It won't be long before we will begin to get answers to all our questions and concerns. After all is said and done, all the speculating ends, the bottom line will surface in the won loss record. All the moves will be the right ones if the team becomes a winning one, if not we're back to square one.The only thing that's going to keep the question and uncertainty away is winning football games BL. Pray for winning!!...Just pray that we win!!

[Player_HTTR]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.

On an nfl.com interview.(Cant link for another 15 posts) Shanny says toward the end I think, he has final say but will take the advice of others. He also states he had that power in Denver but never used it. It may be word games but at least Snyder as acknowledged his involvement has been a problem and at least is trying to create the perception he is backing off.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

It won't be long before we will begin to get answers to all our questions and concerns. After all is said and done, all the speculating ends, the bottom line will surface in the won loss record. All the moves will be the right ones if the team becomes a winning one, if not we're back to square one.The only thing that's going to keep the question and uncertainty away is winning football games BL. Pray for winning!!...Just pray that we win!!

Agreed. Trying to dissect things right now is a little pointless (but of course what else are we here for?). The proof will be in the pudding.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Snyder shouldn't have any involvment in determining the makeup of our roster. He also shouldn't have close personal relationships with any of the players. The point at which either of those statements is no longer true is the point that this team will start spiraling downhill (again).

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with an owner who has personal relationships with players. Look at Bob Kraft/Tom Brady. In fact, it would be close to impossible for an owner not to have said relationships.

The point is that the owner should not engage in those relationships in a way that undercuts the authority of the FO. That has been the problem. Hopefully those days are gone with the Redskins. Hopefully.

[Player_HTTR]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The proof will be in the pudding.

There's pudding too!!! Awesome.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Agreed. Trying to dissect things right now is a little pointless (but of course what else are we here for?). The proof will be in the pudding.

As always, you're the good voice of reasoning.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

Your history is right, Im not saying we were not having problems with coaching, players, etc...Im was refering to running of the organization. Yes Danny Boy is a great business man, 2nd highest revenue team...great for him. But his style, like you said has failed and no he shouldnt have any in personel decision he sucks at doing it. It doest work. In the last decade we have easily been the worst team in our division...thats not media saying it, its what Ive been watching for the last 10 years. Ill refer to your sig as well, Marty stating obviously it starts at the top. Thats not the media but a coach. This last year he and Vinny were pretty classless.

[SFREDSKIN]

I think the difference between the Gibbs hiring and Shanahan hiring are:

Gibbs came in at a point where the franchise didn't have a QB in place, the roster was a mess (lots of holes), etc. His level of energy wasn't there like it was like Gibbs I (he just wasn't the hard ass he used to be).

Shanahan is coming in here hungry after getting fired and has been preparing himself for almost a year for this moment to happen and prove everyone wrong. The roster is in a lot better shape with the exception of the OL and RB, I think QB play can improve with a better line.

What I see:

Danny realizes he needs to step back and let BA and MS do their thing, my main concern with Shanahan is that I want to see him hire a DC like either Gray or Zimmer and not Slowick as DC.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Player_HTTR

There's pudding too!!! Awesome.

Oh yeah... pie and pudding. It's what we're good for here.

I like old school butterscotch pudding, hell even some good ol' rice is good too.