Arizona's New Immigration Law

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

See post # 7. One thing Obama is NOT, is stupid. I'm just a guy on a messageboard and I found the info on the law in less than 5 min. Obama knows exactly what's in/not in the statutes. What he stated is certainly not something that can reasonably be assumed to happen the way they're written. For him to make the statement he did is a purely political play.

I don't know who the "reasonable Republicans" are coming out against this law, but I'll bet it's safe to assume they're pandering to a Hispanic voting bloc in their district/state. You're absolutely correct, the security of the people of the U.S. isn't a right/left issue and I'll bet you could take a handful of members from this board, on both sides of the political spectrum, and come up with a reasonable solution to the illegal immigration issue that satisifed both sides. However, for the vast majority of politicians in DC its about power and keeping their jobs. The Hispanic voting bloc is already (or will be very shortly) the largest minority voting bloc in the country. How this issue is spun is key to gaining/losing support with a good portion of this voting bloc....so I would say there is definitely politcal advantage to be had here.

I think we agree more than we disagree after reading your post. Good post.

It's just a complicated issue and regardless of how and when you approach it, it's going to be a political issue.

[Monkeydad]

I highly doubt the President has actually read this bill...or most bills he talks about. If he did, he's just ignoring the facts to attack people as racists.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

However, for the vast majority of politicians in DC its about power and keeping their jobs. The Hispanic voting bloc is already (or will be very shortly) the largest minority voting bloc in the country. How this issue is spun is key to gaining/losing support with a good portion of this voting bloc....so I would say there is definitely politcal advantage to be had here.

You're right.




Wait, I thought..."There are no Blue States or Red States, we should stop carving up the electorate into ethnic and racial groups" - President Obama

I guess not.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

The primary point to this statute is to provide for the state to take action against any locality that refuses to enforce laws already in place. This law brings a uniform state-wide policy to bear to combat the problems that AZ has been facing for years while politicians on both sides of the aisle in DC bury their heads, while trying to appeal/not offend to the Hispanic voting bloc.

In a nutshell it makes the "sanctuary cities" liable for legal action by the state for not enforcing Federal and State of Arizona law. This I'm sure is a bigger problem in AZ than it is in VA. But I live in the sanctuary city of Virginia Beach. The previous Mayor and police chief had a policy to not report illegals to ICE, in addition to the burden illegal immigrants put on the City services (police, medical, social services) two teenage girls are dead, directly because of this policy (killed by a drunk driving illegal who had been released twice before for alcohol issues).

Here's the a link to the actual text of the statutes:

Text of Arizona's Anti-Illegal Immigration Law - Part 1 | KEYTLaw

These statutes seek enforcement not only directly against illegal immigrants but also against companies that employ them.

President Obama is making a purely political play (and he damn well knows it) in misrepresenting what these statutes contain. This isn't about racism, it's about AZ protecting the people of the state from the negative consequences of illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the murder of the rancher was the straw that broke the camels' back.

We're all grow men, let's bring facts to the table shall we?

1. It makes sanctuary cities liable citizen lawsuits. These citizens will be suing themselves and AZ is the most broke state in the country (yes, even more broken than Cali). Some will claim they're broke because of all the welfare they provide for undocumented aliens but the real questions is how do undocumented aliens obtain these welfare services and how does this law address that issue? You must understand that these aliens have fake everything, license, social security, you name it, they have it.

2. The crime rate in Arizona has been steadily declining even with increasing population of undocumented aliens. The question is what is the basis for claiming undocumented aliens increase are the source of crime in Arizona?

3. Lord Obama is certainly politicizing? He's a politician addressing a national issue, the issue of immigration, which last I checked is a federal issue. Anywho, this Arizona law is a political play itself and that's fine. Either side is entitled to convince the public their immigration vision is right for America. I don't know how he is misrepresenting the the AZ law. I would be happy to listen what part of what he said is objectionable.

4. Looking at comparison of Arizona's 2000 and 2010 budgets I don't see how this law will fix their budget issues. They're merely going to shift their expenditure from social services to incarceration, law enforcement, going to court and deprotation (not even sure they're going to do that themselves).

5. There are many questions this law doesn't address...How are you going to determine if someone legal or illegal if they have a fake driver's license? How are you going to punish companies if all the documents they have for an undocumented worker are valid? How are you going to punish someone for providing comfort to undocumented alien if they say I didn't ask (citizens are not required to ask someone if they are documented and that's not constitutional). How are they going to deal with lawsuits from multiple fronts.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

i agree....
but your previous post (and this one too kinda) implies that drunk drivers are among the people who dont like being pulled over and i think we all agree that they should be.
i assume you meant that if you have 2 beers and are not drunk, you don't need to be hassled by the cops on the off chance that you fail a breathalizer or something.....

Just don't wanna be hassled period, and it is not their right to do so. Probable cause is the rule of law. You know how many people walk because of that alone? I know the rancher got killed sorry that happend, but trying to put the entire hispanic community under duress is not right. Kinda like the excuse "we are looking for crack dealers". My question is "So what the hell you blocking the street for? go catch them mofos. What the hell you get paid to do? What have I saw? Not a damn thing, do an investigation or something. Damn, want me to do your job for you? Basically they are mad because the American citizens who can tell who is illegal or not won't do their job for them. Do some police work for crying out loud. Police always want to be the millitary, like it's not enough police work for them already.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by saden1

3. Lord Obama is certainly politicizing? He's a politician addressing a national issue, the issue of immigration, which last I checked is a federal issue. Anywho, this Arizona law is a political play itself and that's fine. Either side is entitled to convince the public their immigration vision is right for America. I don't know how he is misrepresenting the the AZ law. I would be happy to listen what part of what he said is objectionable.

Holy crap. You're either VERY naive or just have selective ignorance to his statements.

He said "people trying to take their daughter out for ice cream will be asked to show papers for no reason but how they look" and directly accuses opponents of being racists.

Not only is he completely wrong (and/or dishonest) about the facts of the law, he's being racially inflammatory for the sole reason of securing a Hispanic voting block, whether they are legally entitled to vote or not. Think about it...he's opposed to a law forcing illegals to have a legal I.D. to be here. What do you need to vote? A legal I.D.

If you're a legal resident/citizen and have I.D., what are you worried about? I'd gladly have to show my I.D. a few times in exchange for a safer, more secure nation with a better economy and less crime. But of course, unlike the President's false claims, unless I'm already committing a crime, I won't have to worry about any unnecessary hassle.

How anyone can oppose this common-sense law is beyond me.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Buster

Holy crap. You're either VERY naive or just have selective ignorance to his statements.

He said "people trying to take their daughter out for ice cream will be asked to show papers for no reason but how they look" and directly accuses opponents of being racists.

Not only is he completely wrong (and/or dishonest) about the facts of the law, he's being racially inflammatory for the sole reason of securing a Hispanic voting block, whether they are legally entitled to vote or not. Think about it...he's opposed to a law forcing illegals to have a legal I.D. to be here. What do you need to vote? A legal I.D.

I thought a national ID was a new world order communism socialism fear?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Buster

You're right.




Wait, I thought..."There are no Blue States or Red States, we should stop carving up the electorate into ethnic and racial groups" - President Obama

I guess not.

It's called minority outreach and to people who vote for you. No one is precluding you from reaching the minorities. In fact I think you're trying to do just that. BTW, how is Steele doing in that front? I know you got the "heartland" and "real america" on lock and "the blacks" are a lost cause but what about them Hispanics?

Get-R-Done!

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Buster

Holy crap. You're either VERY naive or just have selective ignorance to his statements.

He said "people trying to take their daughter out for ice cream will be asked to show papers for no reason but how they look" and directly accuses opponents of being racists.

Not only is he completely wrong (and/or dishonest) about the facts of the law, he's being racially inflammatory for the sole reason of securing a Hispanic voting block, whether they are legally entitled to vote or not. Think about it...he's opposed to a law forcing illegals to have a legal I.D. to be here. What do you need to vote? A legal I.D.

If you're a legal resident/citizen and have I.D., what are you worried about? I'd gladly have to show my I.D. a few times in exchange for a safer, more secure nation with a better economy and less crime. But of course, unlike the President's false claims, unless I'm already committing a crime, I won't have to worry about any unnecessary hassle.

How anyone can oppose this common-sense law is beyond me.

You're a dense humanoid...even if I broke it down for you I'm afraid you wouldn't understand.

[Trample the Elderly]

Arizona is broke. Almost every state is broke. That's reality. I hear a lot of concern over racial profiling. I don't hear anyone saying anything about the few honest Mexican police and politicians left who are chopped up by the cartels. I guess they don't count huh?

Some of you twirps make me sick. Just remember, when you're banging that black tar heroin and snorting up that dope, a lot of brown skinned people are kidnapped, tortured, and mudered so you can get high. You can tell yourself you're not a racist because you've a Mexican nanny or support amnesty. Tell that to the Americans and Mexicans who are kidnapped and tortured to death for your fucking dope habit. Yuppy pukes!

The real culprits behind the illegal alein problem are the bankers who wash all the dope money for the cartels. Mexicans have been coming to the US, earing money, and going back home for the longest. If they have no home to go back to where else are they supposed to go? If I was Obama I'd arrest every junkie and every corrupt banker in the US. Make those MFers clean toilets and cut grass. If it wasn't for them, Mexico would be a rich nation. Y'all do know Mexico exports oil right?!

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

See post # 7. One thing Obama is NOT, is stupid. I'm just a guy on a messageboard and I found the info on the law in less than 5 min. Obama knows exactly what's in/not in the statutes. What he stated is certainly not something that can reasonably be assumed to happen the way they're written. For him to make the statement he did is a purely political play.

I don't know who the "reasonable Republicans" are coming out against this law, but I'll bet it's safe to assume they're pandering to a Hispanic voting bloc in their district/state. You're absolutely correct, the security of the people of the U.S. isn't a right/left issue and I'll bet you could take a handful of members from this board, on both sides of the political spectrum, and come up with a reasonable solution to the illegal immigration issue that satisifed both sides. However, for the vast majority of politicians in DC its about power and keeping their jobs. The Hispanic voting bloc is already (or will be very shortly) the largest minority voting bloc in the country. How this issue is spun is key to gaining/losing support with a good portion of this voting bloc....so I would say there is definitely politcal advantage to be had here.

This is what it's all about for the Dems. With mid-terms just 6 months away, why wouldn't Obama publicly speak out on this? It's a great opportunity to build more support from registered Hispanic voters.

I haven't read this piece of legislation, nor do I care to. I don't have the time in my day to read page after page of statutes, however I'm all about the strictest (is that a word?) immigration laws. At a time when 1 in 10 Americans is without a job, the thought of people sneaking across our border to leech off of our already struggling economy makes me sick. I'm not an isolationist, but this is a time where we need to put ourselves first.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Just don't wanna be hassled period, and it is not their right to do so. Probable cause is the rule of law. You know how many people walk because of that alone? I know the rancher got killed sorry that happend, but trying to put the entire hispanic community under duress is not right. Kinda like the excuse "we are looking for crack dealers". My question is "So what the hell you blocking the street for? go catch them mofos. What the hell you get paid to do? What have I saw? Not a damn thing, do an investigation or something. Damn, want me to do your job for you? Basically they are mad because the American citizens who can tell who is illegal or not won't do their job for them. Do some police work for crying out loud. Police always want to be the millitary, like it's not enough police work for them already.

hey, i generally agree about not wanting to be hassled...
was just pointing out that mentioning "what if i'm minding my own business driving home drunk...." wasn't the best way to express your opposition to the bill.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Arizona is broke. Almost every state is broke. That's reality. I hear a lot of concern over racial profiling. I don't hear anyone saying anything about the few honest Mexican police and politicians left who are chopped up by the cartels. I guess they don't count huh?

Some of you twirps make me sick. Just remember, when you're banging that black tar heroin and snorting up that dope, a lot of brown skinned people are kidnapped, tortured, and mudered so you can get high. You can tell yourself you're not a racist because you've a Mexican nanny or support amnesty. Tell that to the Americans and Mexicans who are kidnapped and tortured to death for your fucking dope habit. Yuppy pukes!

The real culprits behind the illegal alein problem are the bankers who wash all the dope money for the cartels. Mexicans have been coming to the US, earing money, and going back home for the longest. If they have no home to go back to where else are they supposed to go? If I was Obama I'd arrest every junkie and every corrupt banker in the US. Make those MFers clean toilets and cut grass. If it wasn't for them, Mexico would be a rich nation. Y'all do know Mexico exports oil right?!

:confused-

[SmootSmack]

It's not Arizona, but I'm a bit surprised no one has posted the Tim James ad yet.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by GMScud

:confused-

Sorry I forgot the r in MURDERED.