Is it finally time to rebuild??

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by mooby

Jason Taylor? For me it's not so much trading our draft picks for players over 30, it's trading our draft picks for players who fail to make a difference. We gave up a 2nd for Taylor, he gave us 1 season and bitched his way out of here at the end of it. I'm just tired of trading for/signing players who we don't have good judgement on (I'm looking at you Fat Al).

I feel like we would have a much higher chance of success with a player that at least one guy on our coaching staff was familiar with, it seems when we trade for players that nobody on our staff has ever worked with before it usually ends up being a failure.

And it's kind of obvious we're not rebuilding, and if we are rebuilding, we're doing a pretty bad job at it. You don't trade away multiple draft picks for a 34 year old quarterback if you're not planning on winning now.

Yes -- good point, regardles of age, (and SmootSmack, you're right -- most of thsoe guys weren't over 30) the evidence clearly shows that there were major whiffs on just about everybody the previous FO brought in here.

Bottom line is though, the last remnants of the old republic have been swept away [quoting Gov. Tarkin]. Thank heavens.

It would be a good question to ask though: Knowing what Philly knew about their QB situation, would McNabb have been released outright anyway?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Yes -- good point, regardles of age, (and SmootSmack, you're right -- most of thsoe guys weren't over 30) the evidence clearly shows that there were major whiffs on just about everybody the previous FO brought in here.

Bottom line is though, the last remnants of the old republic have been swept away [quoting Gov. Tarkin]. Thank heavens.

It would be a good question to ask though: Knowing what Philly knew about their QB situation, would McNabb have been released outright anyway?

Well the Eagles moved McNabb not really because of Vick but because they were ready to hitch their wagon to Kolb. So I'm not sure how much they really knew about their QB situation.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Yes -- good point, regardles of age, (and SmootSmack, you're right -- most of thsoe guys weren't over 30) the evidence clearly shows that there were major whiffs on just about everybody the previous FO brought in here.

Bottom line is though, the last remnants of the old republic have been swept away [quoting Gov. Tarkin]. Thank heavens.

It would be a good question to ask though: Knowing what Philly knew about their QB situation, would McNabb have been released outright anyway?

Seriously doubt that. At that time they knew they had a nice young QB in Kolb, but still an unproven one. And with Vick they had no clue he was going to blow up like this.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

I don't know ... this guy outlined it pretty well here:

Originally Posted by 44 70 chip

IMO the Skins should have been in rebuilding mode every year for the last decade. When you piss away 19 total draft picks on 5 players who lasted any time and were productive players via trade/draft trade ups then you "reap what you sow"

I am refering to:
2nd and Bailey for Portis (instead of just Bailey)
3rd for Brunell
1st, 3rd, & 4th total picks for Campbell
3rd & 4th total picks cost of Cooley
3rd & 4th for TJ Duckett
3rd & 4th for Brandon Lloyd
2nd & 6th + another drafts 2nd cost for Rocky McIntosh
2nd & 6th for Taylor
3rd or 4th rounder for Brown pending McNabb
2nd & 3rd or 4th rounder for McNabb

That's a total of 19 picks sent for (arguably) 5 long term starting Redskins of any caliber and two of those (McNabb and Brown obviously) are assuming McNabb and Brown stay for years to come and that is VERY much in question, as Brown is a unrestricted free agent in 3 games and McNabb... well who knows...

The Skins team building philosophy (if you can credit it with enough forethought to call it a philosophy) has been to sacrifice the long term (young potentially talented draftees who might play for 6 or 10 years) for proven players who may have a few years left on the clock, but usually spend at least one of those years adjusting to new systems and then often the next year adjusting to a new HC or coordinator and their systems.

McNabb's first year here is a great example... So was Brunell's

All those transactions took place in just the last six seasons. I guess it depends on how you define "recent years."

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I don't know ... this guy outlined it pretty well here:



All those transactions took place in just the last six seasons. I guess it depends on how you define "recent years."

Well as I just mentioned most of those guys really aren't older players

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

Correct

Mark Brunell - back to 04
Jason Taylor
Pete Kendall

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

The FO traded picks for aging Mark Brunell and Pete Kendall, both of whom may have been released, where the Skins could have then picked them up for nothing. Draft picks were also involved in deals to acquire Portis, Duckett, Lloyd, and Jason Taylor, in addition to McNabb and Jamaal Brown last offseason. If the Patriots are the gold standard for building great teams through the draft, the Skins' methods for the last 12 years should be a cautionary example of how to stay mediocre in today's NFL.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

Gonzalez got traded at around 32/33 for a second round pick so it's certainly possible. Cooley would obviously be a tough choice but if they're not going to use the two tight end sets then it wouldn't be a bad idea to trade him for a second round pick. Then again Shanon Sharpe was productive all the way through his career which finally ended when he was 35.

Rebuilding is about making tough decisions going forward. If we're committed to a rebuild then I say we strongly consider dealing Cooley for a second round pick.

[sdskinsfan2001]

I think that we can slowly rebuild the team with younger talent EXCEPT for on the O-LINE! We need to get younger now. We cant run the ball consistently and it seems like every time we start to get a little rythm on offense we get a huge sack or we lose 4 yards on a run play. So frustrating. Keep Trent Williams, the rest of the starters can be let go. 1st and 2nd round picks the best 2 O-lineman available (i like sherrod from miss st. for right tackle). Then with the rest of the picks get the best players possible for other positions of need later in the draft. T. Williams, Erik Cook, Selvish Capers, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick as our starting 5. Give the young guys a chance to get better and grow into a solid unit, sign some undrafted free agents and keep one or two current guys for depth.

[jamf]

We are rebuilding.
Shanahan and Haslett implemented their systems and they are making players run it. We are not going to have 8 new starters on defense next year so it's in our best interest to make the players learn the system now and incorporate new complimentary players in the upcoming drafts. Realistically, you can only do so much with a draft. We would be lucky if we drafted 3 players that start next year when we probably need 10 new players.

[irish]

What exactly is rebuilding and how long is it supposed to take? The idea of a multi-year rebuilding process just doesnt fly in today's win now NFL. The problem is that while the Skins are rebuilding everyone else is working on getting better also so they are trying to hit a moving target. The Skins are so far behind they might never really catch up. The thing that worries me is that the Skins are the new Detroit, and we all know how long Detroit has been rebuilding, re-organizing, or whatever one want to call it.

[SmootSmack]

I thought the trade for Brunell was fine, Kendall we got I think for a 5th rounder (shouldn't have come to that, but not a bad move for some veteran OL help). Portis has had (if it's over) quite a career for the Redskins. The Duckett move was a total waste. Didn't like it from the start. Expected much more from Lloyd, but he was a WR in his prime when we traded for him.

[GusFrerotte]

YEah, the Skins have been rebuilding, just not doing a good job of it. This organization has been rebuilding since Gibbs left the first time. The Turner years would have been more succesful if we had drafted a lot wiser than we did. THe Shuler bust forced us to go to guys that were brought in to be nice young backups(Frerotte, Green), but ended up being starters. If Shuler didn't suck, and lived up to expectations the franchise would have been fine. The Desmond Howard debacle hurt also. The past ten years has sucked for us in the draft as well. To me we need a new and improved scouting crew, but even that is worthless if the FO doesn't have some sort of plan in place to build a winner. THus far, I am not seeing it. THis past draft we did get Trent, but the rest of it seemed disjointed since we gave up picks. KEEP THE PICKS DAMNIT!!!!!!!!

[drew54]

Could have resigned Trent Green, but instead gave up 3 draft picks to the Vikings for a 2 year rental of Brad Johnson.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by drew54

Could have resigned Trent Green, but instead gave up 3 draft picks to the Vikings for a 2 year rental of Brad Johnson.

I think the ownership issue prevented us from giving a more lucrative offer to Green.