Plaxico out of jail; on the radar of two teams according to Rosenhaus

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Thought I heard something also early on when he first went in, but come on.... even Martha Stewart was disciplined a couple of times. Although I can't stand here. I'll take Buress over Moss since Moss had his share of hammies and pulled groins. As far as I know Buress has not been injured as much and although some here want to complain about Buress's age, Moss is no spring chicken either.

Well if Martha does it...

Plax had disciplinary issues, apart from the self-shooting, before going to prison. Prison should have been a wake up call, and he shouldn't have had any disciplinary issues while in prison. Did Vick? (I'm really asking, because I don't know if he did while in prison). Burress is two years older than Moss and yes I know Plax hasn't played in two years. And Santana has played and started in every game the last 3 years so nagging injuries or not, he's out there playing. Burress has also had the same...when he wasn't locked up

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do I have this right? You want to get rid of Moss, sign Plax, and stay away from Vince Young?

Bingo. No seriously, I'd prefer to keep Moss but the WCO is predicated on tall WR's which the team went out and picked up in the draft. I understand Moss wants to be here but what it boils down to is will the team/coaching staff think he's worth bringing back? Especially for whatever price Moss will want.

I look at both Moss and Buress as being tied due to age, Moss injuries of his past and Buress being out of play or a couple of years trade off. Buress is taller and healthier and has more potential to come back as a temp #1 then Moss does.

My issues with Young are me confusing him with the Raiders QB who was using drugs. Young I just don't think is a very good QB and doesn't handle pressure well either on the field or off, then there is the fact that no matter who is brought in they will still be at a disadvantage having to start from scratch learning the playcalls and scheme the whole while we have Grossman who already knows it best and Beck who would have a one year lead on whoever is brought in. So picking up Young would be a waist. I'd rather keep McNabb who would also have a better knowledge then anyone else brought in.

Let's keep Grossman and Beck, build up the OL and next year look for the future QB. Then the Rookie QB would have a better OL to protect him and the supporting cast will be better and have a better understanding of what they are doing in order to help said Rookie QB

[SmootSmack]

I'm not sure what makes you say Burress is healthier than Moss. And I also wasn't aware that the WCO is predicated on tall receivers

[NLC1054]

The West Coast Offense is predicated on tall receiver?

The Packers only have one "tall" receiver, Jordy Nelson. He's 6'3. Jennings if 5'11, Driver and James Jones are 6'1.

What about the Philly West Coast offense? DeSean Jackson is 5'10, Jeremy Maclin and Jason Avant are both 6 feet flat.

In Houston, Andre Johnson is 6'3. Jacoby Jones is 6'2", Kevin Walter is 6'3". This is the first instance of an offense consisting mostly of "tall" receivers, but the offense runs through Johnson, who's dominant not because he's tall, but because he's physical, versatile and is a great route runner.

In Minnesota, Sidney Rice is 6'4". Bernard Berrian is 6'1", Percy Harvin is 5'11, as is Greg Camarillo.

People get too hung up on height. Height is overrated. Out of the top ten receivers in terms of yardage, 5 (Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace and Santana Moss) are ALL 6'0" and under.

7 of the top 10 wide receivers in terms of touchdowns scored are 6'0 and under.

Last season tall guys had more success in terms of receptions, but the three "short guys" took the top three spots amongst wide receivers in terms of receptions.

Tall, short, doesn't matter. Especially not in the West Coast Offense. Especially when you consider that the best wide receiver Mike had as a head coach, Rod Smith, was only 6'0", and he's heading for Canton one day.

I'd like to think the front office wasn't just drafting wide receivers because they were tall. That's the trap Vinny fell into; when everyone moaned and groaned and griped about not having tall receivers, Vinny took two of the taller receivers available, Devin Thomas (6'2") and Malcolm Kelly (6'4").

We all know how that turned out.

And yeah, Burress is technically (healthier), but he's been out of football for two friggin' years. I very much doubt running routes in a prison yard comes close to being in football shape and matching up against DBs and learning a new offense.

The ideal in any offense is to have a good mixture of sizes and to make sure guys are versatile enough that you can line them up anywhere on the field to create the optimal match ups. Having tall receivers isn't necessary, no matter what you hear from analyst and fans who don't know any better. Sometimes players are smaller than they appear to be on TV.

If the West Coast Offense needed tall guys, why did we add 5'11" Anthony Armstrong and 5-11" Terrence Austin last and draft 5-10" Aldrick Robinson this season?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not sure what makes you say Burress is healthier than Moss. And I also wasn't aware that the WCO is predicated on tall receivers

Me either,I though it was a reciever that can run routes and catch a ball and Plax can only do 1 of those(when he wants) ......and it ain't route running.

[SBXVII]

Ok, I guess I could be wrong in regards to the WCO being predicated on tall receivers, however I can't explain why I'm always hearing that the WCO needs tall WR's. My mistake.

And I'm not going to dilute what Giantone has to say only because Burress was on his team and he should have a better idea of Buress then I would.


So........ apparently I fail. Lol. Proof is in the pudding and so apparently I've been proven incorrect.

Buress being healthier? Well I think I had only heard of one season where Buress had gotten injured so if there were more again I apologize but it seems Moss is/was getting injured almost every season, hammy, groin pull, hammy, groin pull. I was going to say Buress has not had to take a beating for two seasons and hopefully he has kept up his running and weight lifting so at this point all he has to do is work on learning the routes.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I didn't hear that exactly, but I did hear on the radio this morning that he had one of the dirtiest cells in the entire prison.

This comment is boggling my mind. The dirtiest cell in prison? What a disgrace! There were probably serial killers in that prison who kept their cells cleaner than Plaxico kept his.

Should Plaxico have set a better example for the career criminals in prison by keeping a clean cell? I think so! By extension, how could he be expected to be a good teammate in the NFL when he couldn't even keep a clean cell in prison?

Of course, I'm being sarcastic. I don't think that any of this stuff about breaking the rules in prison by having a dirty cell or not wearing flip flops in the shower has any relevance whatsoever to Plaxico's ability to once again function as an NFL player. Radio hosts need something to talk about, even if it is meaningless.

[skins89moss]

We don't need Plaxico we have Malcom Kelly if he can just stay healthy during the season. I rather keep Moss and let our young WR corp get some playing time. We have bigger concerns at the QB position even if we bring back Grossman, I still would like us to bring in VY or get T.Pryor in the supplemental draft. I know pryor is a projet but he could develope in a good QB with some QB coaching and time maturing behind Grossman.

[SBXVII]

#1- Malcomb Kelly is a bust. I don't know how else to say it. He might make flag football but he's too fragile for the NFL. Mark my words Kelly has not done anything and as history shows won't. He'll be cut, especially since we picked up 3 WR's this last draft.

A Different Approach : Niner Insider

Back in the Walsh era, the team looked for different types of players. The west coast offense wanted small, quick, intelligent offensive linemen, big wide receivers, dual-threat tight ends, and fullbacks who could catch.

Football 101: History of the West Coast Offense

Wide Receivers in the WCO
The wide receiver position is probably the second most important position in this offense only because of the passing. The ideal size of a wide receiver should be at least 6 foot 3 inches, and weigh about 210 pounds. To play effectively, a wide receiver must posses several traits and characteristics. For example, a wide receiver should have a high level of agility. The agility to change his body position is essential if a wide receiver is to be able to get his hips turned and his hands in position to catch a ball that is not perfectly thrown. Body control is particularly critical for a wide receiver who wants to get to the highest tier of play.

Wide receivers in this offense must also be relatively strong. Strength can help wide receivers in several ways. For example, strength plays a role in a wide receiver being able to maintain his balance after a collision with his defenders. Strength also affects a receiver’s ability to go up for the ball and his ability to maintain his performance level as the game progresses . All factors considered the stronger a player is, the less likely he is to be injured.

Soft hands are also vital. It’s a given that to have a legitimate chance to play, a receiver must have outstanding hands. The key is to be able to catch the ball in a crowded situation, while on the move. Almost all potential receivers can run under the ball and catch it in the open. In reality, however, most catches must be made with the ball and the defender closing at the same instant.

In such a situation, the receiver must get his body in position to catch the ball and be hit all at the same moment.

Wide receivers must also have the ability to focus. They must be able to find the ball, focus on it, and isolate it from everything else that is happening around them. When a coach is evaluating videotapes on a particular wide receiver, he looks for and evaluates those plays that demonstrate situations where the player must be focused.

Speed also plays a role. While pure (track) speed may be desirable, the ability to increase his foot speed as needed (i.e., explosiveness) and his full stride speed are more important factors for a wide receiver. Acceleration has a number of obvious applications for a wide receiver.

Full-stride speed enables a receiver who has the ball in the open field to be able to keep the separation with the closing defenders until he crosses the goal line . He doesn't have to out-run the defenders or gain ground on them just get to the goal line before the defenders do. This situation requires full-stride speed, rather than track speed.

The NFL has also had a few wide receivers with Olympic-level sprinting speed who lacked full-stride speed. As a result, they weren't able to score whenever they got tangled up with a defender and weren't able to get back into full stride quickly enough.

Coachability is another factor that is important that wide receivers have (as it is for all players). Coaching can help enhance a receiver's ability to evade a defender at the line of scrimmage, to read the form of coverage, and to change a pattern accordingly.

Wide receivers must also be durable. Durability is a factor because receivers get hit a lot. Often, they're hit when they're in a vulnerable position (i.e., being hit by a much larger opponent after running a hooking pattern against a linebacker). Wide receivers are finely tuned athletes who need to be in top condition to perform well. If they are hurt or injured, it can be very difficult for them to function at a high level. Unlike a few other positions (e.g., offensive lineman), wide receivers must be almost totally injury free to perform well.

Walsh has had the luxury to coach a number of great wide receivers, including Chip Myers, Charlie Joiner, James Lofton, Ken Margerum, Isaac Curtis, Dwight Clark, John Taylor and the incomparable Jerry Rice. At one time or another, all of them were either Pro Bowl players or All-Americans in college.

Each, however, was uniquely qualified and different from the others.

For example, Chip Myers was 6'5, while Charlie Joiner was only 5'10; Isaac Curtis was an NCAA sprint champion; Dwight Clark ran a 4.6 40-yard dash, etc . The one thing that they had in common, however, was that they were all brilliant performers.

Just some examples of why I think that the WCO is predicated on tall WR's. Sorry for the long read.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by skins89moss

We don't need Plaxico we have Malcom Kelly if he can just stay healthy during the season. I rather keep Moss and let our young WR corp get some playing time. We have bigger concerns at the QB position even if we bring back Grossman, I still would like us to bring in VY or get T.Pryor in the supplemental draft. I know pryor is a projet but he could develope in a good QB with some QB coaching and time maturing behind Grossman.

Is there something seriously wrong with Grossman? Everyone is soo down on him. I'll admit I wasn't excited that we picked him up last year cause I didn't know what he could offer.

Now I'm not saying he's "the" QB of our franchise future but I felt he fared pretty well. If the team fixes the OL and gives him more time in the pocket with protection and get some decent WR's I think he will do fine.

So I find it really funny how some folks here are all over the fact we need a QB and others are all over the fact we need WR's. Again I'm not saying Grossman and Beck are the answer to everything but they are not bad QB's. All we had at WR was Moss and Armstrong. Some here would say Armstrong is not all that great. Have we fixed the problem? maybe, we have to wait and see what we have in the 3 drafted WR's. Everyone thought Kelly and Thomas were going to take over and be the guys yet they didn't. So I'm optimistic about our new guys but ya have to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Should we pick up Young? I don't know. I'm not in favour of it but if it happens then I hope everything works out. I'm just not as optimistic about Young coming here and getting along with MS and KS, accepting the 2nd QB position if he doesn't make 1st, and not throwing a tempertantrum. Our fans and media can be down right mean and I just don't thing Young would survive here. It might be a fresh start for Young but here in the Metro are it is more like SSDD. I could see him in Miami taking over the starting job right away.

[NLC1054]

Bill Walsh's version of the West Coast Offense has spun off into so many different variations that making the blanket statement "you need tall wide receivers" is silly. The version that they run in Philly has always consisted of smaller, shiftier route runners that could overtake people with their speed rather than dominate them with size.

If I had to guess what Kyle Shanahan is looking for...it's easy to think of Andre Johnson as a big guy and mostly as an outside target, but what helps hims have his success is that the offensive coordinator can line him up anywhere on the field and create the most successful match ups.

That's the same thing he did with Santana Moss, and I think that's the reason we drafted Hankerson; he seems like the kind of guy you can line up at any wide receiver position and he's not going alligator arm it over the middle and he can physical enough to go outside. If you look at the Packers, all their wide receivers can do the same thing.

I think that's more of what the West Coast Offense has become about, anyway; versatile receivers, no matter what their heights are, that are excellent route runners, have great hands and create ideal match-ups all over the field.

[SBXVII]

^ Understood. Back in the day yes each WR had one specific job. So your right that they do shift them around in order to get better match ups. I'm not dissagreeing with you there but.... I'd still argue that we would need a true #1 WR that has some height. We drafted 3 WR's who I think will work out fine but again look how Thomas and Kelly worked out. I was stoked there until they let me down.

In any event the bigger issue is will Moss be here next yr? Although he says yes, will the team want to resign him and will the money be right? If the team thinks he's past his prime he might not be here, and or if Moss is asking for too much he won't be. A few of the beat writers have already mentioned that the team would like to have a Vet on the team to compliment the Rooks. I'm also not actually saying we have to go out and get Burress. I'm saying if the team goes out after him I'm ok with it. Young I'm not. Why? because it's common place for the WR's or RB's or TE's to have issue's, it's not for you team leader. Your team leader is the one who keeps it all together and makes the offense work, they shouldn't have to be worrying about stroking his ego and hoping he doesn't throw any temper tantrums.

[NC_Skins]

AP Source: Eagles not interested in Burress - Yahoo! Sports

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

^ Understood. Back in the day yes each WR had one specific job. So your right that they do shift them around in order to get better match ups. I'm not dissagreeing with you there but.... I'd still argue that we would need a true #1 WR that has some height. We drafted 3 WR's who I think will work out fine but again look how Thomas and Kelly worked out. I was stoked there until they let me down.

The thing about Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas is that the Redskins were more or less roundly criticized for picking those two wide receivers in particular.

Coming out of college, everyone knew about Kelly's health issues and the problems with his knees (which contributes to the chronic problems with his hamstrings) and that he was coming out because his value was still high, but he was still probably overdrafted.

Devin Thomas only had one year of production to back him up. To Mike Shanahan, that might've made him worthy of being drafted in the same spot Niles Paul was. To Vinny...ugh...

Basically, Vinny was an idiot. Hankerson has a history of production and improvement (and has improved on not dropping the ball), as does Aldrick, and Niles Paul had enough production to justify his draft position, coming from a run heavy football team.

As for needing a tall number one receiver...I think sometimes the idea of the number one receiver is bigger than the reality of it. And again, Greg Jennings is the "number one" receiver for Green Bay and he's only 5'11".

[Skins4L]

We need a big pickup offensively outta FA if it ever happens...

Plax or Sidney... we need to pull the trigger on one.
If the starters gonna be John Beck we need some weapons more than ever right now.