McCants: Your thoughts?

[SmootSmack]

Beathard retired a long time ago (five years maybe) as GM of the Chargers. Lately he's been consulting with the Falcons I think.

I find it hard to believe that Gibbs just sat idly by while Beathard put the team together. He must have had some say. And everybody has misses. It's not like Desmond Howard was some major project that Gibs took a gamble on in the first round. I don't remember exactly but a lot of teams I'm sure wanted him.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Beathard retired a long time ago (five years maybe) as GM of the Chargers. Lately he's been consulting with the Falcons I think.

I find it hard to believe that Gibbs just sat idly by while Beathard put the team together. He must have had some say. And everybody has misses. It's not like Desmond Howard was some major project that Gibs took a gamble on in the first round. I don't remember exactly but a lot of teams I'm sure wanted him.

We traded 2 #1's to move up and take him, and I can say this I was yelling at that pick almost as much as I was yelling about Campbell, but we can see a trend here, overpaying for undervalued talent.

You are correct Tafkas he didn't sit idly by and that's why Beathard left, he was tired of Gibbs wanting vet's when he could bring in youth through the draft much cheaper, and probably as good or better, it's no coincidence that Gibbs left when he did, he used 2 #1's on a waste of a WR, and then jumped ship leaving us with an ageing team on it's way out.

And if you want to see a real pattern forming, when he traded up to get Desmond we needed defensive line help bad, primaraly tackles, WR wasen't a neccessity at the time, and he threw away 2#1's to upgrade his offense as we watched our D-line basically disapear the following year. Sound's a little like our draft this year doesn't it?

[skinsguy]

Can you post the interview where Beathard said this about Gibbs?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

WR wasen't a neccessity at the time, and he threw away 2#1's to upgrade his offense as we watched our D-line basically disapear the following year. Sound's a little like our draft this year doesn't it?

Not when you consider the past two drafts we've used #1 picks for the defense, Taylor and now Rogers.

Our d-line isn't exactly in shambles right now.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Not when you consider the past two drafts we've used #1 picks for the defense, Taylor and now Rogers.

Our d-line isn't exactly in shambles right now.

The point was we gave up the farm for a position that we didn't have a real need at the time, to forgo a position that we did, I agree about our D-line now, but we had a different need this year and it was a WR, Although our need was also at CB which we did address with a quality pick in Rogers, we had a real chance to deal down a bit and still get a good CB and address some other need's, instead of a QB who's not NFL ready when we have a QB like Ramsey, obviously we have rehashed this and no sense getting back into at this point it's over, I just wanted to make that point about Gibbs and his willingness to overevaluate talent, I don't think theres a person here who doesn't believe we could have dealt down into the second rd and still got Campbell, but what is done is done, now we wait and hopefully Gibbs makes me look like a fool with this pick, but no matter, we still gave up to much.

[Daseal]

Actually Offiss, I think Campbell would have been gone within the first 5 picks of the 2nd round. CLE especially would have nabbed him I bet.

[RedskinsJunkie]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Actually Offiss, I think Campbell would have been gone within the first 5 picks of the 2nd round. CLE especially would have nabbed him I bet.

I agree Campbell would have been gone in the second and early. Point is we did not need Campbell anyway and We certainly could have got a project that was more talented and pro ready in Adrian McPherson who went in the 5th round. I know, I know, Gibbs loves character players... BUt your teams needs should come first and if you use a 4th or 5th on McPherson it isn't like you are paying the farm for the guy and you can use a couple of years to develop him.

[SmootSmack]

With Campbell-a mobile QB of solid character-it's almost as if Gibbs was looking for a young Brunell isn't it?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Actually Offiss, I think Campbell would have been gone within the first 5 picks of the 2nd round. CLE especially would have nabbed him I bet.

Possibly, but my thought is no, I don't think he would have been in danger of being picked until he dropped to cincci. at 16, then possibly miami, and if cleveland didn't take him he would have fell at least into the middle rounds. But that's all speculation now.

[Daseal]

I agree we had other needs, but I think he would have been gone early 2nd. You're right -- it is speculation.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I agree we had other needs, but I think he would have been gone early 2nd. You're right -- it is speculation.

Obviously Daseal my biggest gripe is in our situation we didn't need a project at QB in the first, I could have lived with it if we dealt down and grabbed him in the second knowing we could have filled our need's, I just have a bad feeling that Justin Miller and Vincent Jackson are going to be tremendous players in the NFL for a long time and we missed out.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by RedskinsJunkie

No! What I am saying is even Gibbs can make mistakes and that was a HUGE one. OUr year would have been completely different if Ramsey started from day one. His first two starts were against Philly and Pittsburgh on the road??? I am just saying that Gibbs puts a lot into character and Ramsey and McCants are definitely not on his good side, but both were better options last year than the players that Gibbs played. McCants at worst last year should have been the number 3 WR.

That's very very very debatable Redskinsjunkie! The way Ramsey looked in preseason and in the games in which he came in in relief of Brunell, I cannot see any indication that things would have been better. With all of us arguing over execution, playcalling, receivers, quarterbacks,Gibbs' rust; it's plain to see that Ramsey would not have put a big enough band-Aid on our problems with offense.

Not to mention the fact that Ramsey himself said he was not ready to play at the beginning of the season - Gibbs had no choice but to put in someone he felt could run the offense better - but enough of that..we've stomped that argument into the ground here already!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

That's very very very debatable Redskinsjunkie! The way Ramsey looked in preseason and in the games in which he came in in relief of Brunell, I cannot see any indication that things would have been better. With all of us arguing over execution, playcalling, receivers, quarterbacks,Gibbs' rust; it's plain to see that Ramsey would not have put a big enough band-Aid on our problems with offense.

Not to mention the fact that Ramsey himself said he was not ready to play at the beginning of the season - Gibbs had no choice but to put in someone he felt could run the offense better - but enough of that..we've stomped that argument into the ground here already!

Really? What indication did you see in pre-season that Brunell would be any better than he was in the regular season?

Didn't Ramsey come into a game when we were in a hole against the Giant's and started moving the ball up and down the field? Something we hadn't seen from Brunell all year, and if it wasen't for an easy drop by Gardner he would have probably won that game for us, and he did all that without getting the rep's in practice because he was the #2 QB, and running Gibbs offense for the first time in meaningful action. Then guess what the following week he was back on the bench.

As for Ramsey stating he wasen't ready? At least he's honest I am still waiting for Brunells reasoning behind horrific performance, either he wasen't ready, or he's just plain bad, either way Gibbs obviously made the wrong choice at QB.

My problem with this whole issue is both Brunell and Ramsey are being scapegoated here for what I believe was Gibbs offensive problems, and playcalling, and now Gibbs is looking to another QB as if that's the problem, Sooner or later he has to look in the mirror. Ramsey deserves to be afforded the same opportunity and confidence that Gibbs showed for Brunell.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Really? What indication did you see in pre-season that Brunell would be any better than he was in the regular season?

Didn't Ramsey come into a game when we were in a hole against the Giant's and started moving the ball up and down the field? Something we hadn't seen from Brunell all year, and if it wasen't for an easy drop by Gardner he would have probably won that game for us, and he did all that without getting the rep's in practice because he was the #2 QB, and running Gibbs offense for the first time in meaningful action. Then guess what the following week he was back on the bench.

As for Ramsey stating he wasen't ready? At least he's honest I am still waiting for Brunells reasoning behind horrific performance, either he wasen't ready, or he's just plain bad, either way Gibbs obviously made the wrong choice at QB.

My problem with this whole issue is both Brunell and Ramsey are being scapegoated here for what I believe was Gibbs offensive problems, and playcalling, and now Gibbs is looking to another QB as if that's the problem, Sooner or later he has to look in the mirror. Ramsey deserves to be afforded the same opportunity and confidence that Gibbs showed for Brunell.

It's not a question of Ramsey being honest - if he said he wasn't ready to start, then he wasn't. Being able to lead a football team involves more than just physical ability...you've got to be mentally ready. Sure, Ramsey came in and moved the ball against the Giants in the first game - he also threw how many interceptions?

Before you jump to conclusions, I didn't say that Brunell looked that good in pre-season...actually I felt Hasselbeck probably should have had as much consideration to start as what Brunell and Ramsey had.

Let me put it this way: both Quarterbacks looked horrible in preseason to me. The decision probably came down to which one was more ready mentally. Performance wise, I don't believe either one of them should have started. That's the point my argument that putting Ramsey in more than likely would not have done us any favors.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

It's not a question of Ramsey being honest - if he said he wasn't ready to start, then he wasn't. Being able to lead a football team involves more than just physical ability...you've got to be mentally ready. Sure, Ramsey came in and moved the ball against the Giants in the first game - he also threw how many interceptions?

Before you jump to conclusions, I didn't say that Brunell looked that good in pre-season...actually I felt Hasselbeck probably should have had as much consideration to start as what Brunell and Ramsey had.

Let me put it this way: both Quarterbacks looked horrible in preseason to me. The decision probably came down to which one was more ready mentally. Performance wise, I don't believe either one of them should have started. That's the point my argument that putting Ramsey in more than likely would not have done us any favors.

I agree! My point was how mentaly ready was Brunell compared to Ramsey?
As for the INT's let's face it 1 should have never happened it came after the Gardner drop and he threw 1 up for grabs late in the game, persoanlly I think the cause of those INT's was Ramsey's willingness to try to make something happen in an offense with recievers who were running easily covered routes, where as Brunell just threw the ball away.

Obviously my thought on the capability of our QB's lies with gibbs and his offense last season, and not the QB's themselves, let's face it I am not, nor ever been a big Brunell fan, but even I have to admit that Brunell is a much better QB than what we saw last season, and I believe that falls on Gibbs.