Putting Things in Perspective

Kope · 08-17-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Sir I believe that trying to blow anything up your own ass would be subjective. Furthermore what ramsey did do last season has to be taken into consideration when evaluating his performance. His stats are among the highest in the league for those last five games. 3-2, and coming really close in those two, makes me think, maybe we get off his back and stop trying to put things in our asses.

Word

Schneed10 · 08-17-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Some people aren't going to be happy unless he's flawless. Obviously he's never going to live up to some people's expectations. All I can say is thank god the fans don't run the team, otherwise we'd be starting a rookie, Ramsey would probably be traded, and Tim Hasselbeck would be the backup until Campbell throws a pick... and then he would be yanked and probably immediately traded.

I somewhat agree here. If we just think strategically like an offensive coordinator for a minute, we don't need our QB to light the world on fire like Peyton Manning. We have a great defense, and we have one of the best RBs in the game. Our team should not be airing the ball out to win games, taking lots of risks. We need to control the clock, keep the chains moving, and limit turnovers.

I think Patten and Moss were brought here not so they could catch bombs, but so they could open up running lanes for Portis and more underneath passes. Sure, we want them to hit a deep pass sometimes, and sometimes we'll need it. But primarily, we need to get Portis to 4.5 yards per carry, and improve in short yardage situations. Gibbs will not ask Ramsey to set the world on fire like Manning, and neither should we.

But I am concerned about Ramsey's ability to throw deep. Last year Ramsey finished strong, but I don't remember him hitting on any long balls during that strong finish. There weren't many attempts, but when we did try it, he seemed inaccurate. Someone mentioned that there will be times when we need to air it out when we're behind in games. This is absolutely true. I'd like to see more attempts by Ramsey to throw deep in the preseason. I want him to show he can do it.

Ramsey made good decisions and good reads against the Panthers. I think he'll manage the offense well for Gibbs. But given a good offensive line and his new stronger arm, I think Brunell could manage the offense well too. I don't see Brunell making a lot of mental mistakes. If he can show that he can hit deeper targets, then I wouldn't be afraid to plug him in after four regular season games or so.

MTK · 08-17-2005, 12:44 PM

I agree, we don't need Ramsey to be Manning.

All we need is him to continue to improve upon his strong finish last year. If we have just an average passing attack, I think that's all we need to free things up in the running game, which make no mistake about it is going to be our bread and butter this year once again.

Look at this last 5 starts last year:

Giants: 19/22 174 yards 3 TD 0 INT
Eagles: 29/45 251 0 TD 1 INT
49ers: 18/27 214 1 TD 0 INT
Cowboys: 19/29 158 1 TD 2 INT
Vikings: 17/26 216 2 TD 1 INT

That's a QB rating of 94.98 folks.

If all he does this year is continue at this kind of pace, and mixes in a few more deep completions here and there, I really think the offense will be just fine.

Defensewins · 08-17-2005, 01:07 PM

Matty- your point about Ramsey playing well (statistically) in the the last five games last years; yet he is back to playing inconsistanly now makes me realize something:
Maybe Ramsey is not very good at handling presure. IN the last five games last year we were out of the playoff race, Brunnel had been banished to siberia and we were just playing out the season. No presure on Ramsey.
This year (as compared to last 5 games last year) is a new season with higher expectations (playoffs?) and Ramsey final chance to show he belongs in Washington. He played horribly last preseason when he was competing against Brunnell for the starting job. I think Ramsey chokes when the presure is turned up but plays well when the preasure is less. Could QB Campbell also be putting his shorts in a knot?

If Ramsey plays well on a consistant bases that is all we need. The problem is for every game he plays great, he follows it up with a bad game. It is not the physical part it is mental. He does always seem comfortable on the field. Ramsey needs to relax and have fun on the field. He is trying too hard.

MTK · 08-17-2005, 01:22 PM

Back to playing inconsistent?

8/12 for 77 yards isn't all that bad, granted I haven't seen the game but from what I've read it seems like he wasn't as bad as the kneejerk overreactions would indicate.

Let's at least give him the rest of the preseason before we say he's inconsistent or not. I see people (not on this forum necessarily) ready to toss in the towel after one preseason game.

Let me repeat that, one preseason game.

It seems like some people never learn this lesson, year after year people either get too excited or too down in the dumps during the preseason.

12thMan · 08-17-2005, 01:38 PM

I maintain Ramsey more than likely will not become a prolific NFL passer. How in the world could anyone say "he's back to playing inconsistent" after one preseason game?? With all due respect, that's ridiculous. I should add, we shouldn't throw in the towel on the guy even if his entire preseason isn't all that great.

But....and this is a big "but" if Brunell continues to show sharpness and accuracy during preseason I think fans, even the ones who crucified him last year, will wonder in the back of their minds if he should get another shot at the starting job. I just hope Patrick Ramsey doesn't have it in the back of his mind!

Schneed10 · 08-17-2005, 01:41 PM

Yeah that is the key, it was only one preseason game like Matty said. You can't really say Ramsey has played consistently or inconsistently so far this preseason. He hasn't had enough playing time to establish himself either way. Let's give him time to show us what he's got.

Now for me personally, I think I just tend to think a lot more highly of Mark Brunell than the average bear. It's not that I don't like Ramsey, I just like the idea of Mark Brunell after seeing how good his arm looked. Last year his arm looked like a noodle, but against the Panthers those balls were humming. I want to give Ramsey a chance, because I think he'll play well given his play at the end of last year. But I guess I just feel a lot better about our backup. I feel like we have two QBs capable of being a starter in this league. Hopefully Brunell keeps it up and shows that his arm against the Panthers wasn't a fluke.

Redskins_P · 08-17-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Back to playing inconsistent?

8/12 for 77 yards isn't all that bad, granted I haven't seen the game but from what I've read it seems like he wasn't as bad as the kneejerk overreactions would indicate.

Let's at least give him the rest of the preseason before we say he's inconsistent or not. I see people (not on this forum necessarily) ready to toss in the towel after one preseason game.

Let me repeat that, one preseason game.

It seems like some people never learn this lesson, year after year people either get too excited or too down in the dumps during the preseason.

Matty I agree with your post, but if you ever get a chance to see the Carolina game you will notice what some people here are worried about.

Ramsey didn't look comfortable at all in pocket. He had "happy feet" and never really planted his feet when he threw the ball (which lead to overthrows). He had Patten open on a couple of occasions and he simply threw the ball over his head. It just seemed like he was often worried about the rush, and not focusing on just getting the ball out. Granted, we didn't have much of a running game, but I expected Ramsey to look much better, and to me he looked like the "spurrier version" of Ramsey.

Maybe it was first game jitters, but if I don't see a change come this Friday....I'm going to worry.

12thMan · 08-17-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah that is the key, it was only one preseason game like Matty said. You can't really say Ramsey has played consistently or inconsistently so far this preseason. He hasn't had enough playing time to establish himself either way. Let's give him time to show us what he's got.

Now for me personally, I think I just tend to think a lot more highly of Mark Brunell than the average bear. It's not that I don't like Ramsey, I just like the idea of Mark Brunell after seeing how good his arm looked. Last year his arm looked like a noodle, but against the Panthers those balls were humming. I want to give Ramsey a chance, because I think he'll play well given his play at the end of last year. But I guess I just feel a lot better about our backup. I feel like we have two QBs capable of being a starter in this league. Hopefully Brunell keeps it up and shows that his arm against the Panthers wasn't a fluke.

Honestly, last year was the first time I really had the chance to see Brunell play. I never saw him at Jacksonville. So I didn't have any thing to go on, but obviously my first impression wasn't good.

It's funny how we hear and write a lot of talk about how LaVar has a chip on his shoulder this year - I bet it pales in comparison to the one Brunell has on his this year. His motivation this year may be to simply prove to himself he's still NFL material and every snap he takes in practice, a scrimage, or even a preseason game he's playing to redeem his own conscience and show his worth. Think about it, he signs a big contract that most people feel he didn't live up to, me included, then get's booed for the remainder of the season, get's benched, restructures his contract (TO you should be reading this!), and loses his starting job to the guy he was brought here to replace.

Maybe that's good thread for someone to start...who has a bigger chip on their shoulder this year LaVar or Brunell? I don't know, these are just my silly theories of course

Schneed10 · 08-17-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Honestly, last year was the first time I really had the chance to see Brunell play. I never saw him at Jacksonville. So I didn't have any thing to go on, but obviously my first impression wasn't good.

It's funny how we hear and write a lot of talk about how LaVar has a chip on his shoulder this year - I bet it pales in comparison to the one Brunell has on his this year. His motivation this year may be to simply prove to himself he's still NFL material and every snap he takes in practice, a scrimage, or even a preseason game he's playing to redeem his own conscience and show his worth. Think about it, he signs a big contract that most people feel he didn't live up to, me included, then get's booed for the remainder of the season, get's benched, restructures his contract (TO you should be reading this!), and loses his starting job to the guy he was brought here to replace.

Maybe that's good thread for someone to start...who has a bigger chip on their shoulder this year LaVar or Brunell? I don't know, these are just my silly theories of course

It's a good point about the chip on his shoulder, I'm sure he does have something to prove to himself. Also if things don't work out for him as a Redskin, he still wants to play QB in elsewhere. He's not ready to call it a career, so he needs to show other NFL teams what he can do.

In the 90's in Jacksonville he was nothing short of brilliant. He could really scramble, spread the ball around, saw the defense well, and had a knack for making plays when it really counted. So, as a vet with lots of experience, it's not like the guy is prone to making bad decisions as a QB.

But then in his last few years in Jacksonville he hurt his arm or elbow or something like that. I never got a real good feel for what kind of injury it was. I'm not saying he had Tommy John surgery or anything, but when pitchers have reconstructive elbow surgery it usually takes them 2 years to get their velocity back. AJ Burnett's success this year is a perfect example of that. I'm purely speculating here, but you have to wonder if Brunell's arm wasn't 100% last year, and now it's ready to roll again. The zip he had on the ball against Carolina was quite impressive. I'm not going to get too excited, because it was only one game. Just like I'm not going to get too down on Ramsey for only one game. But I am encouraged a bit.

12thMan · 08-17-2005, 02:24 PM

I think Friday's game will be very interesting. Marvin probably still has somewhat of a book on Ramsey from his brief stint with us.

It will be very interesting to see how we react to Ramsey's play vs. Brunell and start to form opinions thereafter. I think the one thing we all have in common, however, is whether it's Ramsey, Brunell, or JC we just want the Skins to win - and that's the bottom line!!

RedskinRat · 08-17-2005, 02:29 PM

I'm not so set on a win, even. I just want to see improvement in all aspects (which should equate to a win) and fewer/no penalties.

12thMan · 08-17-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

I'm not so set on a win, even. I just want to see improvement in all aspects (which should equate to a win) and fewer/no penalties.

No, no, I didn't mean a win this Friday, per se. We all want the Redskins to win....big picture win, not Friday preseason game win.

RedskinRat · 08-17-2005, 02:34 PM

Ah, well, in that case. 19-0 this season and I'll consider the last decade or so forgiven.

12thMan · 08-17-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Ah, well, in that case. 19-0 this season and I'll consider the last decade or so forgiven.

I'll second that

08-17-2005, 12:44 PM	#48
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Putting Things in Perspective I agree, we don't need Ramsey to be Manning. All we need is him to continue to improve upon his strong finish last year. If we have just an average passing attack, I think that's all we need to free things up in the running game, which make no mistake about it is going to be our bread and butter this year once again. Look at this last 5 starts last year: Giants: 19/22 174 yards 3 TD 0 INT Eagles: 29/45 251 0 TD 1 INT 49ers: 18/27 214 1 TD 0 INT Cowboys: 19/29 158 1 TD 2 INT Vikings: 17/26 216 2 TD 1 INT That's a QB rating of 94.98 folks. If all he does this year is continue at this kind of pace, and mixes in a few more deep completions here and there, I really think the offense will be just fine. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

08-17-2005, 01:07 PM	#49
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,749	Re: Putting Things in Perspective Matty- your point about Ramsey playing well (statistically) in the the last five games last years; yet he is back to playing inconsistanly now makes me realize something: Maybe Ramsey is not very good at handling presure. IN the last five games last year we were out of the playoff race, Brunnel had been banished to siberia and we were just playing out the season. No presure on Ramsey. This year (as compared to last 5 games last year) is a new season with higher expectations (playoffs?) and Ramsey final chance to show he belongs in Washington. He played horribly last preseason when he was competing against Brunnell for the starting job. I think Ramsey chokes when the presure is turned up but plays well when the preasure is less. Could QB Campbell also be putting his shorts in a knot? If Ramsey plays well on a consistant bases that is all we need. The problem is for every game he plays great, he follows it up with a bad game. It is not the physical part it is mental. He does always seem comfortable on the field. Ramsey needs to relax and have fun on the field. He is trying too hard.

08-17-2005, 01:22 PM	#50
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Putting Things in Perspective Back to playing inconsistent? 8/12 for 77 yards isn't all that bad, granted I haven't seen the game but from what I've read it seems like he wasn't as bad as the kneejerk overreactions would indicate. Let's at least give him the rest of the preseason before we say he's inconsistent or not. I see people (not on this forum necessarily) ready to toss in the towel after one preseason game. Let me repeat that, one preseason game. It seems like some people never learn this lesson, year after year people either get too excited or too down in the dumps during the preseason. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

08-17-2005, 01:38 PM	#51
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Putting Things in Perspective I maintain Ramsey more than likely will not become a prolific NFL passer. How in the world could anyone say "he's back to playing inconsistent" after one preseason game?? With all due respect, that's ridiculous. I should add, we shouldn't throw in the towel on the guy even if his entire preseason isn't all that great. But....and this is a big "but" if Brunell continues to show sharpness and accuracy during preseason I think fans, even the ones who crucified him last year, will wonder in the back of their minds if he should get another shot at the starting job. I just hope Patrick Ramsey doesn't have it in the back of his mind!

08-17-2005, 01:41 PM	#52
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,422	Re: Putting Things in Perspective Yeah that is the key, it was only one preseason game like Matty said. You can't really say Ramsey has played consistently or inconsistently so far this preseason. He hasn't had enough playing time to establish himself either way. Let's give him time to show us what he's got. Now for me personally, I think I just tend to think a lot more highly of Mark Brunell than the average bear. It's not that I don't like Ramsey, I just like the idea of Mark Brunell after seeing how good his arm looked. Last year his arm looked like a noodle, but against the Panthers those balls were humming. I want to give Ramsey a chance, because I think he'll play well given his play at the end of last year. But I guess I just feel a lot better about our backup. I feel like we have two QBs capable of being a starter in this league. Hopefully Brunell keeps it up and shows that his arm against the Panthers wasn't a fluke.

08-17-2005, 02:24 PM	#56
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Putting Things in Perspective I think Friday's game will be very interesting. Marvin probably still has somewhat of a book on Ramsey from his brief stint with us. It will be very interesting to see how we react to Ramsey's play vs. Brunell and start to form opinions thereafter. I think the one thing we all have in common, however, is whether it's Ramsey, Brunell, or JC we just want the Skins to win - and that's the bottom line!!

08-17-2005, 02:29 PM	#57
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: Putting Things in Perspective I'm not so set on a win, even. I just want to see improvement in all aspects (which should equate to a win) and fewer/no penalties.

08-17-2005, 02:34 PM	#59
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: Putting Things in Perspective Ah, well, in that case. 19-0 this season and I'll consider the last decade or so forgiven.

Putting Things in Perspective

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