Suspicious Minds?

LadyT · 09-15-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

According to what's widely understood regarding the front office setup, Snyder is the primary negotiator. I highly doubt Gibbs played any sort of a notable role in the number crunching aspect of Brunell's contract.

You're probably right, Gibbs didn't get involved in the number crunching on Brunell's contract. But the front office (Vinnie, Danny, etc.) certainly knew that Gibbs wanted him and wanted him badly. That probably led to the overblown contract that MB ended up with.

Oh well, it's water under the bridge now. From Danny's point of view, it's better to have a $42M player actually playing rather than holding the clipboard.

offiss · 09-15-2005, 03:10 PM

If anyone here thinks Gibbs doesn't a real incentive to make Brunell succeed their only kidding themselves, he convinced Snyder to shell out 42 mil for this guy, I don't care how much power Gibbs has within the organazation he is spending someone elses money, signing a player is one thing, giving up a #2 for a player that was going to be released is another, but handing him 42 mil is a real problem, first a contract like that is really gonna go a long way to limiting other players we can sign to help the team as a whole, and secondly you have to explain to your employer why he's shelling 42 mil for a backup at best.

Then we can couple that with the Portis signing in which Gibbs gave up Bailey who would have bought back some nice draft picks, and a #2 pick along with 50 mil for a and I will say it again, A SYSTEM BACK! He does not fit what Gibbs wants to do or has done in the past, and yet whenever Gibbs is asked he say's he thinks Portis is a power guy, I have yet to see Portis move a pile or convert a third and short, I don't care how much weight he puts on he's not a power guy he's a speed and finase type back, which is fine if you committ to useing him that way, the problem lies that Gibbs now has to change what won him 3 SB's to accomadate his back, does anyone believe he's not trying to do whatever he has to to justify that move? It's not like he has said I screwed up Clinton is not the kind of back that fit's what I have done and what I want to do.

We now find out that IMO the best play calling coach in the NFL his first tenure is no longer calling the plays, we have Musgrave sending down plays, yes they go through Gibbs, but why? He never needed that before one of his greatest strengths as a coach is now in the hands of a coach Jacksonville couldn't get rid of fast enough, yes the same team that rivalled us with points scored last season.

I will say this and have said it in the past I don't lay Ramsey problems at his feet, and I don't even believe Brunell is as bad as he has looked, I blame Gibbs and a simplistic aproach to offense, which other defenses last season said more than once their not running anything remotly difficult to figure out, Portis himself kept saying the defenses know what we are running.

Bottom line Gibbs spent 92 million on 2 players who are not what we need and now has to look Snyder in the face everyday, if Gibbs is going to judge himself as he has stated, and that is, what's in the past is in the past, he will be judged by what he does now, how many second year coaches can spend 92 mil for 2 players that don't fit, or are washed up?

And I don't want to here about Portis's 1300 yds Gibbs probably took 2 seasons off his NFL carreer with the pounding he took trying to get him to match what he did in denver, he could have set a record for the most yards with the least yards per carry.

All we keep hearing is how much of a prideful man Gibbs is, well I believe his pride right now is not allowing him to admit to 2 huge mistakes, and has him doing anything he can to justify those moves, I still believe Portis is a tremendous talent, but is Gibbs capable of utilizing it? Personally I feel he is lost as a coach right now.

SUNRA · 09-15-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyT

I would agree with you about the possibility of Ramsey getting his job back, were it not for the drafting of Campbell. Let's not forget what Gibbs has done from the first day he came back in terms of QBs. First, Gibbs immediately pursued the aging Brunell and signed him to an absurdly large contract which even the most ardent of Brunell/Gibbs devotees must admit is a joke. Next year, he gives up the barn to get Campbell. That's a 1-2 punch and, to me, clearly indicates he doesn't plan on having Ramsey be a part of this team much beyond this year.

Please take a minute to read what you wrote. A nullified TD from Ramsey to Cooley did not win the game. Three drives by Brunell led to 9 points which won the game. Be honest with yourself. Do you care who leads this team to victory or are you more concerned about being right? Sometimes we all get so wrapped up in our own thinking that we miss the big picture. If Brunell leads us to a victory over Dallas will those of you who disliked Gibb's decision turn around and give him credit for the win. Because let me tell you something, all the energy we are spending on who should or shouldn't lead this team, Cowboys fans are licking their chops and laughing at 14 out of 15 games we have loss.

MTK · 09-15-2005, 03:33 PM

Portis may be a smaller back, but I don't think it's correct to totally write him off as a back who doesn't play with power. Personally I saw a back running with some power last weekend, he busted some tackles and consistently was falling forward when hit.

Besides, this isn't the first time Gibbs has made changes to his system to accomodate his talent. He's won with power backs and he's had his share of smaller guys too.

Burns is calling the plays, not Musgrave. Musgrave is down on the field with the QBs.

Now people are crabbin' about the running game?? I must have been watching a different game because I saw a hell of a running game last week.

Last week Portis averaged over 5 yards a pop. Betts has taken on a bigger load, seems to me that Gibbs has learned a thing or two about his talent and is intent on not running Portis into the ground again.

RedskinRat · 09-15-2005, 03:35 PM

1-0.

Redskins_P · 09-15-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

1-0.

Amen! Thats all that matters to me.

56FAN · 09-15-2005, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by illdefined
was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?
I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game

offiss · 09-15-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 56FAN

Originally Posted by illdefined
was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?
I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game

???????????

illdefined · 09-15-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 56FAN

Originally Posted by illdefined
was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?
I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game

back in game 2 right? yeah, and i suppose all of Brunell's losses after that were close enough not to yank him. sigh. all his passes sure were ugly though.

offiss · 09-15-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

back in game 2 right? yeah, and i suppose all of Brunell's losses after that were close enough not to yank him. sigh. all his passes sure were ugly though.

Not to mention his fumble, but here we go again, Brunell throws 1 INT and turns the ball over on a fumble and all anyone can talk about is Ramsey's 3 INT's, 1 of which would have never happened if Gardner could remotly catch a pass any 8 year old could catch for a TD.

Yet Brunell did nothing in the 3 quarters he played except dig a hole Ramsey almost pulled us out of in a little over 1 quarter, and would have if it wasen't for Gardner.

Oh yea how did Ramsey look in his next start against the Giant's I believe he kicked their a**'s up and down the field, so much for blaming Ramsey for the first Giant lose!

LadyT · 09-15-2005, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Please take a minute to read what you wrote. A nullified TD from Ramsey to Cooley did not win the game. Three drives by Brunell led to 9 points which won the game. Be honest with yourself. Do you care who leads this team to victory or are you more concerned about being right? Sometimes we all get so wrapped up in our own thinking that we miss the big picture. If Brunell leads us to a victory over Dallas will those of you who disliked Gibb's decision turn around and give him credit for the win. Because let me tell you something, all the energy we are spending on who should or shouldn't lead this team, Cowboys fans are licking their chops and laughing at 14 out of 15 games we have loss.

The point I was trying to make, though maybe not very clearly, is that all of our scoring came from our kicker. If I recall correctly, kicking was a big part of our scoring last year too. With Hall out (at least for the next game) and an unknown kicker taking over, I am very worried. Why? Because our offense has not shown the capability to consistently score TDs, not last year and not last week. Thiree field goals may have worked with the Bears. I don't think it will continue to be a key to success with other teams who have good offenses and can put up the points on us.

If we win against Dallas, I will be extremely happy. And it doesn't really matter if we, the Skins fans are focusing on one thing, and Dallas fans are focusing on something else. Because we, the fans, don't play the game.

DirtBagZ · 09-15-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

Yes it is the NFL. To paraphrase Mark Schlereth from an interview aired last night ESPN. Q-Did Coach Gibbs pull Ramsey fast? Mark-yes. Q-To fast? Mark-it's the NFL, thats how it works! Q-What would you have done? Mark-I would have pulled him to. He had most of last season, all summer, mini-camps, training camp, etc, etc, etc to impress the coaching staff, and take the team, he failed. You cannot not win in the NFL turning the ball over. Q-How do you think Ramsey should handle it? Mark-He's a big boy, this is the NFL, and he'll get over it!

Actually, I am not a Ramsey basher, but a supporter. I would have pulled him, with absolutely NO sign of improvement. It's not about a quarter of play or one errant pass or decision. It is about dozens of them. Potential is not enough, ask Jeff George

So based upon your own criteria then, why in the hell did we have to endure that dreadfullness, which was Mark Brunell for nine games last year? Brunell was not getting it done, yet it is nothing but excuses, excuses, the hammy this, no time with the new offense, and on and on it goes. That is what has a lot of people irked is the blatant double standard. Why is it that all of the sports columinst are now taking shots at St. Joe?

That Guy · 09-15-2005, 07:59 PM

Receivers run the wrong routes from time to time, no one brought it up because its just something that happens. I'm sure it has and will happen to brunell as well.

Monk-Fan · 09-15-2005, 08:15 PM

im going to the game on Monday but it wont be the same because i really dont believe the Skins have to good a chance to win in Dallas with Brunell under center. I was looking forward to watching Ramsey take this team this season and see what he could do win or lose. Too bad the rest of the team along with the fans have to suffer thru another bad season.

SmootSmack · 09-15-2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk-Fan

im going to the game on Monday but it wont be the same because i really dont believe the Skins have to good a chance to win in Dallas with Brunell under center. I was looking forward to watching Ramsey take this team this season and see what he could do win or lose. Too bad the rest of the team along with the fans have to suffer thru another bad season.

You should donate the tickets to someone who will go root for the Skins

09-15-2005, 03:10 PM	#47
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Re: Suspicious Minds? If anyone here thinks Gibbs doesn't a real incentive to make Brunell succeed their only kidding themselves, he convinced Snyder to shell out 42 mil for this guy, I don't care how much power Gibbs has within the organazation he is spending someone elses money, signing a player is one thing, giving up a #2 for a player that was going to be released is another, but handing him 42 mil is a real problem, first a contract like that is really gonna go a long way to limiting other players we can sign to help the team as a whole, and secondly you have to explain to your employer why he's shelling 42 mil for a backup at best. Then we can couple that with the Portis signing in which Gibbs gave up Bailey who would have bought back some nice draft picks, and a #2 pick along with 50 mil for a and I will say it again, A SYSTEM BACK! He does not fit what Gibbs wants to do or has done in the past, and yet whenever Gibbs is asked he say's he thinks Portis is a power guy, I have yet to see Portis move a pile or convert a third and short, I don't care how much weight he puts on he's not a power guy he's a speed and finase type back, which is fine if you committ to useing him that way, the problem lies that Gibbs now has to change what won him 3 SB's to accomadate his back, does anyone believe he's not trying to do whatever he has to to justify that move? It's not like he has said I screwed up Clinton is not the kind of back that fit's what I have done and what I want to do. We now find out that IMO the best play calling coach in the NFL his first tenure is no longer calling the plays, we have Musgrave sending down plays, yes they go through Gibbs, but why? He never needed that before one of his greatest strengths as a coach is now in the hands of a coach Jacksonville couldn't get rid of fast enough, yes the same team that rivalled us with points scored last season. I will say this and have said it in the past I don't lay Ramsey problems at his feet, and I don't even believe Brunell is as bad as he has looked, I blame Gibbs and a simplistic aproach to offense, which other defenses last season said more than once their not running anything remotly difficult to figure out, Portis himself kept saying the defenses know what we are running. Bottom line Gibbs spent 92 million on 2 players who are not what we need and now has to look Snyder in the face everyday, if Gibbs is going to judge himself as he has stated, and that is, what's in the past is in the past, he will be judged by what he does now, how many second year coaches can spend 92 mil for 2 players that don't fit, or are washed up? And I don't want to here about Portis's 1300 yds Gibbs probably took 2 seasons off his NFL carreer with the pounding he took trying to get him to match what he did in denver, he could have set a record for the most yards with the least yards per carry. All we keep hearing is how much of a prideful man Gibbs is, well I believe his pride right now is not allowing him to admit to 2 huge mistakes, and has him doing anything he can to justify those moves, I still believe Portis is a tremendous talent, but is Gibbs capable of utilizing it? Personally I feel he is lost as a coach right now.

09-15-2005, 03:33 PM	#49
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,568	Re: Suspicious Minds? Portis may be a smaller back, but I don't think it's correct to totally write him off as a back who doesn't play with power. Personally I saw a back running with some power last weekend, he busted some tackles and consistently was falling forward when hit. Besides, this isn't the first time Gibbs has made changes to his system to accomodate his talent. He's won with power backs and he's had his share of smaller guys too. Burns is calling the plays, not Musgrave. Musgrave is down on the field with the QBs. Now people are crabbin' about the running game?? I must have been watching a different game because I saw a hell of a running game last week. Last week Portis averaged over 5 yards a pop. Betts has taken on a bigger load, seems to me that Gibbs has learned a thing or two about his talent and is intent on not running Portis into the ground again. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop Last edited by MTK; 09-15-2005 at 04:18 PM.

09-15-2005, 03:35 PM	#50
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: Suspicious Minds? 1-0.

09-15-2005, 04:11 PM	#52
56FAN Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MANASSAS VA Age: 62 Posts: 323	Re: Suspicious Minds? Originally Posted by illdefined was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB? I think it had something to do with the 3 or 4 interceptions in the giant game

09-15-2005, 07:59 PM	#58
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	Re: Suspicious Minds? Receivers run the wrong routes from time to time, no one brought it up because its just something that happens. I'm sure it has and will happen to brunell as well.

09-15-2005, 08:15 PM	#59
Monk-Fan Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 151	Re: Suspicious Minds? im going to the game on Monday but it wont be the same because i really dont believe the Skins have to good a chance to win in Dallas with Brunell under center. I was looking forward to watching Ramsey take this team this season and see what he could do win or lose. Too bad the rest of the team along with the fans have to suffer thru another bad season.

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