WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021

[Chico23231]

Why would anybody in their right minds want Derek Carr?

There is absolutely no way in hell I’m sending a draft pick for him...why?

If Ron gets Carr, a first failure in the first office

[MissouriSkin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why would anybody in their right minds want Derek Carr?

There is absolutely no way in hell I’m sending a draft pick for him...why?

If Ron gets Carr, a first failure in the first office

Why??? Because he’s a pretty good QB, much much better than anyone on the roster by a mile and not too old and reasonably durable. I would not do a Stafford trade for him, but a third and Collins and I’d do it right now. What’s your plan? (Not argumentative, just asking...no way I trade for Watson because of the price so who else are you going for?)

[mooby]

Originally Posted by MissouriSkin

Why??? Because he’s a pretty good QB, much much better than anyone on the roster by a mile and not too old and reasonably durable. I would not do a Stafford trade for him, but a third and Collins and I’d do it right now. What’s your plan? (Not argumentative, just asking...no way I trade for Watson because of the price so who else are you going for?)

Not to mention, we have a real void in players on this team that who look like Sid the Kid from Toy Story, and he would fill that void.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Scalper

And you would never have enough talent around him to win anything. He is a good not great QB, especially as pocket passer.

Rams have a solid core with talent EVERYWHERE except QB, such a trade much more defensible for them, especially getting to dump the AWFUL Goff contract, he NEVER should have been extended.
Ramsey is a HOF-caliber shutdown corner, sound trade. Not opposed to ALL trades for picks, Ramsey HOF player in prime for two late 1st rounders.
They traded a total of 2 1sts (2016-2017), 2 2nds, 2 3rds for Geoff, who they just traded, and a 1st for Brandin Cook, neither player still on roster. They are mortgaging the future to win a SB next 1-2 years. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but they again have a truly stacked roster and are honestly just a QB away from contending. We don't and aren't.

Alright lets look at it results wise 2016 was the last year Jeff Fisher was there and the year they drafted Jared Goff, lets ignore that year because it was Jeff Fisher

2017- No first round pick 11-5 loses in divsional round (Division Champs)
2018- No first round pick loses Super Bowl (Division Champs)
2019- 9-7 missed the playoffs after losing to the 49ers in week 16 (first non playoff season under McVay
2020- Lost in divisional round to the Packers
2021- In position to win the division again


In the last 4 seasons they've made the playoffs 3 years and made a SB, and havent had a losing season since 2016 when they last had a first round pick. If you're telling me we are in the thick of things for the next 5 years off trading first round picks and will have a SB performance I dont think anyone here would say no to that.

We on the other hand havent won a playoff game since 2005 when I was a junior in high school, and are tot he point where we think journeyman Taylor Heinecke is the guy based off 5 quarters of play.

What I dont understand is, if people think Heinecke is the guy on one hand how can you not think someone like Stafford or Watson would put us in contender category

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Alright lets look at it results wise 2016 was the last year Jeff Fisher was there and the year they drafted Jared Goff, lets ignore that year because it was Jeff Fisher

2017- No first round pick 11-5 loses in divsional round (Division Champs)
2018- No first round pick loses Super Bowl (Division Champs)
2019- 9-7 missed the playoffs after losing to the 49ers in week 16 (first non playoff season under McVay
2020- Lost in divisional round to the Packers
2021- In position to win the division again


In the last 4 seasons they've made the playoffs 3 years and made a SB, and havent had a losing season since 2016 when they last had a first round pick. If you're telling me we are in the thick of things for the next 5 years off trading first round picks and will have a SB performance I dont think anyone here would say no to that.

We on the other hand havent won a playoff game since 2005 when I was a junior in high school, and are tot he point where we think journeyman Taylor Heinecke is the guy based off 5 quarters of play.

What I dont understand is, if people think Heinecke is the guy on one hand how can you not think someone like Stafford or Watson would put us in contender category

you are using one example. i'm sure there are plenty of others that have gone the other way. if this model worked more teams would do it. but it has worked for the rams.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why would anybody in their right minds want Derek Carr?

There is absolutely no way in hell I’m sending a draft pick for him...why?

If Ron gets Carr, a first failure in the first office

Here's an accurate assessment on Carr, he chokes in the pressure games.

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/oa...238038199.html


Commentary: Raiders fans have lived with mediocre Derek Carr for too long

By Dieter Kurtenbach Bay Area News Group
December 04, 2019 10:38 AM

Raiders head coach Jon Gruden said in his postmortem press conference Monday that he was not going to “sit here and criticize my quarterback.”

So I guess I’ll do it for him.

Derek Carr has done plenty of admirable things in both his Raiders career and this past season, but with his team’s playoff hopes on life support following two embarrassing blowout losses, we’re back to where we were this past offseason and the offseason before that:

Carr is playing for his job – yes, once again – over the last four games of the 2019 campaign.

But really, it’s Sunday’s game against the Titans that’ll prove to be a referendum on No. 4.

And if that’s not Gruden’s perspective, then he should start listening to the fans a bit more. If I’m accurately picking up what they’re laying down, they’re over their quarterback. Forgive the anecdotal evidence, but from my perspective, it’s overwhelming. At the very least, the fan base is wholly disenchanted with Carr’s play.

Don’t call the fans fickle, either. It’s now in Carr’s sixth season at the helm of the Raiders and his second season in Gruden’s offense. The last four of those seasons can be generously called “underwhelming.”

So we’ve reached a push-comes-to-shove moment.

Gruden went to bat for Carr on Monday that saying that “he’s competing, and he’s performed very well with a lot of moving parts, and if you think that’s easy, then you’re mistaken. I compliment him for his competitiveness, his preparation and his ability to compete each week.”

It’s impossible to disagree with that assessment. Carr deserves credit for preparing the right way. Compliment him until the sun goes down. As for his level of competitiveness, I don’t know how anyone can gauge that.
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The things that really matter – his play and the results on the field – can be gauged, though. And it’s his play and the results in critical games that have most underwhelmed.

Carr hasn’t authored a win over a playoff team since October of 2017. He has four wins in 31 games against playoff teams in his career. This season, he’s 0-5 against probable playoff teams, and, in the last two weeks, when the Raiders were in a position to take control of a playoff spot in the AFC and perhaps even take the lead in the West division, Carr turned in all-time clunkers against the Jets and Chiefs.

The Chiefs’ defense and special teams scored as many points as the Raiders’ offense in Kansas City, and the Jets – the Jets that lost to the 0-11 Bengals this week – laughed at his futility all the way to a 34-3 win.

Is his and the Raiders offensive’s poor play all his fault? Of course not.

Gruden and his lack of adjustments and predictable, one-track play calling deserve blame. The Raiders defense deserves blame. A group of receivers that can’t seem separate from a pylon can get some, too.

But Carr is getting the protection he needs to be successful only to look flustered in the pocket, make bad decisions with the ball, and not see the field (or lurking safties) well. Defenses have decided to sell out to stop rookie running back Josh Jacobs in recent weeks. They’re daring Carr to beat them. He’s looked overwhelmed by the opponents and the moment.

And, taking a step back, he simply doesn’t have enough of a resume to say that he’s not a key part of the Raiders’ problems. Especially when you consider that we’ve seen quarterbacks of Carr’s pay grade do far more with less around the league.

If Carr turns in another clunker on Sunday against the Titans – a performance which would surely extinguish the Raiders’ faint playoff hopes and effectively end their season, as the contest is a de-facto playoff game – it would be downright unforgivable. I simply don’t know how he could win the fans’ trust back after that.

And I don’t know how the Raiders could justify not bringing in at least some serious competition for him next year.

After all, at the end of this season, the Raiders will have draft picks, plenty of money to spend in free agency, a palatable exit route in Carr’s contract, and a blank slate in a new state. It’s a perfect opportunity to start fresh with a new QB1, even if that franchise savior sits behind Carr, learning the ropes, for a season.

Maybe the past two games have already sealed Carr’s fate. We just don’t know it yet. Maybe Gruden is bullheaded and has so much belief in Carr that the last two games don’t matter to him, no matter how poorly the quarterback has played. But if we pretend, for a moment, that the Raiders exist in the real world – that they are, in fact, a competent NFL team – then Sunday’s game at the Coliseum is going to tell us everything we need to know about Carr.

Raiders fans have lived in a state of mediocrity for too long. Everything is on the line for the Raiders on Sunday. Carr’s tenure as the team’s starting quarterback included.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

you are using one example. i'm sure there are plenty of others that have gone the other way. if this model worked more teams would do it. but it has worked for the rams.

When has a 25 year old in their prime top 5 QB become available in the past?

Especially with all of our major contributiors on their rookie deals? If I am WFT I am on the phone with Houston right now and I'm not hanging up until we get a deal done. They want two 1sts? Fine, they want to add two 2nds as well. Ok. You want Landon Collins and someone from the DL not named Young or Sweat. Gas up the Washington Football plane.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

When has a 25 year old in their prime top 5 QB become available in the past?

Especially with all of our major contributiors on their rookie deals? If I am WFT I am on the phone with Houston right now and I'm not hanging up until we get a deal done. They want two 1sts? Fine, they want to add two 2nds as well. Ok. You want Landon Collins and someone from the DL not named Young or Sweat. Gas up the Washington Football plane.

The problem I have with this line of thinking is one play could change the destiny of the franchise for the next several seasons. One play and Watson could have his leg broken in such a manner that his life would be at risk. Then what?

"Well, the franchise qb we traded for might never play again and we're out several of our high draft picks for the next couple years, but at least we can fantasize about what could've been"

I've always been about building your roster the slow draft way. If you trust your talent evaluators and they have a good working relationship with the coaching staff you can fill any position on the team, and it doesn't have to be with a first rounder either. You could build an entire team out of 3-7 late round draft picks who have become elite despite the odds.

It's why I'm not a big fan of Ron's "get wins quick" play. We have a solid foundation but we're not 1 solid qb away from contention.

[rocnrik]

I agree with Mooby ... also Somebody is going to offer up the entire 21 draft Class plus 3 number ones total ...if not more ..if Stafford got what he did .. you can double or triple what Watson will get .Watson has had 2 acl injuries so far .. can you imagine us getting him and he suffer a horrible injury..

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

I agree with Mooby ... also Somebody is going to offer up the entire 21 draft Class plus 3 number ones total ...if not more ..if Stafford got what he did .. you can double or triple what Watson will get .Watson has had 2 acl injuries so far .. can you imagine us getting him and he suffer a horrible injury..

Every move, FA or otherwise, has an element of risk/reward. That would suck though. But our next three years of 1st round picks could all tear their ACLs too. Can’t play scared. You play to win.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by mooby

The problem I have with this line of thinking is one play could change the destiny of the franchise for the next several seasons. One play and Watson could have his leg broken in such a manner that his life would be at risk. Then what?

"Well, the franchise qb we traded for might never play again and we're out several of our high draft picks for the next couple years, but at least we can fantasize about what could've been"

I've always been about building your roster the slow draft way. If you trust your talent evaluators and they have a good working relationship with the coaching staff you can fill any position on the team, and it doesn't have to be with a first rounder either. You could build an entire team out of 3-7 late round draft picks who have become elite despite the odds.

It's why I'm not a big fan of Ron's "get wins quick" play. We have a solid foundation but we're not 1 solid qb away from contention.

That could happen to anyone at any time. Chase Young could break his leg and never play again just walking down the stairs. At the end of the day to me, if we get Watson our SB window opens up. Thats the point. One SB win would make up for the last 30 years. As those have said our division is bad, there is an opportunity for us to grab a hold of it by acquiring Watso:

Eagles: coaching issues and QB controversy
Giants: Saquan coming off ACL surgery, Daniel Jones cant beat anyone but us, no real recieving weapons
Cowboys: Dak coming off injury, having to potentially pay Dak 40 million a year, and their defense and coaching is trash


The opportunity is there. Everyone agrees that with Stafford at the helm this year we would have won 10 games, no way you can convince me that Watson wouldnt have gotten us to potentially 12 wins

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Every move, FA or otherwise, has an element of risk/reward. That would suck though. But our next three years of 1st round picks could all tear their ACLs too. Can’t play scared. You play to win.

Scared money doesnt make money

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Scared money doesnt make money

Facts

[CRedskinsRule]

WFT has to make an offer to Houston. Evaluate the risk reward. Do due diligence. But in the end offer a legit number. If it sticks we walk into a weak division with a tremendous advantage and an opportunity to erase 20 years of mismanagement. If they don't accept it then you go to the next option.

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[CRedskinsRule]

Here is an interesting article on Goff. Don't know if the link works but it basically says Detroit needs to trade Goff now that his contract lost the dead cap to LA. Would you give Detroit anything straight up for Goff?

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0YTVL...nDOLB&hl=en_US



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