Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

[Alvin Walton]

Yea well I'm Frank Schmedley from The League of Farmer Tanned White Guys and I say the name is not offensive and the government should gtfo.

[scowan]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Yea well I'm Frank Schmedley from The League of Farmer Tanned White Guys and I say the name is not offensive and the government should gtfo.

Well if you are now a farmer tanned white guy you now have "red skin" and I know you are not offended.

On a serious note, I guess there is no real incentive to change the name for Dan Snyder until he tries to get a new stadium and starts asking for public money to help him build it. Then the Redskin name haters will come out of the wood work I'm sure.

I am really trying hard to find a way to make this offensive for me so I can understand. I am not an American Indian, I am a 45 year old white guy from Kentucky. Even if they called the team the Washington Honkys or the Washington Rednecks, I'm still just not getting offended. Maybe I just have thicker skin, I don't know. Someone needs to give me, a white guy, a name that will really offend me so I can understand. I'm conservative so maybe if you called me a liberal Democrat I might get it.

[Starry Plough]

For what it's worth, I was brought up a Roman Catholic in sectarian Northern Ireland. Now, as I got older I learned not to buy into organised religion on any level, and instead interpret things in my own personal way, but whatever, I won't get into that.

Anyway, there are a number of slurs exchanged between Protestants and Catholics here due to beliefs be them religious, political, or indeed tribal. Two in particular I find particularly offensive to Catholics (and I'm not alone) then are Taig and Fenian.

As the latter was often used to describe an Irish warrior, I've met folk from outside of Ireland who would therefore interpret it as a term of endearment as someone who fought against oppression and tyranny. Something to be proud of if you will. Unfortunately however, that is just not the case, and if someone suggested a team in any area of sport was to be dubbed the Fenians, I guarantee there would be international condemnation.

Now, if I get criticised as not understanding or appreciating what it means to grow up following the Redskins, then of course I get that. There is an identity by association, even, and in some cases especially where team sport is concerned (I know families who live and die by Gaelic football). I guess I'm merely saying I can empathise with concerns within the Native American community, but if the team name were to change, then I'd still follow them regardless.

[irish]

Originally Posted by scowan

Well if you are now a farmer tanned white guy you now have "red skin" and I know you are not offended.

On a serious note, I guess there is no real incentive to change the name for Dan Snyder until he tries to get a new stadium and starts asking for public money to help him build it. Then the Redskin name haters will come out of the wood work I'm sure.

I am really trying hard to find a way to make this offensive for me so I can understand. I am not an American Indian, I am a 45 year old white guy from Kentucky. Even if they called the team the Washington Honkys or the Washington Rednecks, I'm still just not getting offended. Maybe I just have thicker skin, I don't know. Someone needs to give me, a white guy, a name that will really offend me so I can understand. I'm conservative so maybe if you called me a liberal Democrat I might get it.

Its only a matter of time before the name is changed.

You are correct about the new stadium Scowan. Like most things this will end up being about $ and when DS decides he needs a new stadium and wants public $ to build it (there is no chance he will shell out his own dough for a stadium) he will change the name. Of course he will spin it to make it sound like its not about $ and he will use "we fought the good fight t keep the name" language but make no mistake about it, the name change will be all about $.

[punch it in]

I think that if the name Redskins was offensive to Native Americans a long time ago, that it is not anymore. Hence the name Redskins being proudly worn by a handful of highschool football teams made up primarily of Native Americans. All of this talk does nothing but make it offensive again.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by scowan

Well if you are now a farmer tanned white guy you now have "red skin" and I know you are not offended.

On a serious note, I guess there is no real incentive to change the name for Dan Snyder until he tries to get a new stadium and starts asking for public money to help him build it. Then the Redskin name haters will come out of the wood work I'm sure.

I am really trying hard to find a way to make this offensive for me so I can understand. I am not an American Indian, I am a 45 year old white guy from Kentucky. Even if they called the team the Washington Honkys or the Washington Rednecks, I'm still just not getting offended. Maybe I just have thicker skin, I don't know. Someone needs to give me, a white guy, a name that will really offend me so I can understand. I'm conservative so maybe if you called me a liberal Democrat I might get it.

Well to play devils advocate the white man from Kentucky hasnt exactly endured the hardships that the native american has. Which is why you are not necessarily offended imo.
That being said it boils down to are native americans offended by the name. According to studies - they are not.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Redskins LB Keenan Robinson is (finally) healthy, working with starters | Comcast SportsNet Washington

It's really nice seeing a player like Robinson whose gone through multiple injuries make his presence felt especially at a pretty huge position of need for the team. Hopefully he keeps making strides and becomes another solid pick for the team even if it took more time than everyone had hoped it would take.

[scowan]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Well to play devils advocate the white man from Kentucky hasnt exactly endured the hardships that the native american has. Which is why you are not necessarily offended imo.
That being said it boils down to are native americans offended by the name. According to studies - they are not.

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

I don't want to turn this into a social/history discussion. But Native Americans are one of many groups that have been disadvantaged over several generations and that's something that doesn't turn around overnight.

Here's a non minority comparison. Look at the southern US states that were heavily affected by the Civil War. Some of the poorest states in the country are in the South, which was heavily affected by the loss of people and economic resources during the war. Some of them bounced back, but most have not, yet the Civil War ended almost 150 years ago. Sure there has been other things affecting these states, but 5 years of warfare, loss of life, and breakdown of economic structure has a long term effect.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

Can opened, lol. I'll just share one example of the inequities that exist today based on things that happened generations ago.

I had a conversation a couple years back with a older (mid 60's) white gentleman who was telling me about the wind farms that he has on some family property he owns in Kansas that was passed down from multiple generations dating back to the early 1800's. On this land the government pays him nearly $15k monthly not to grow crops but to allow them to use the land for 'experimental energy sources'. He's banked millions over the years and his family is set for generations to come purely based on this subsidy. Great for him, I'm not mad at him!

Here's the thing, my ancestors were legally not allowed to own property in Kansas during that time period so regardless of my hard work, work ethic, etc. I would never have that same opportunity because of the history of this country. He didn't do anything but win the sperm lottery but he and his offspring are set for life.

Don't take this as a 'poor me' tale, I've done well for myself through my efforts and it turns my stomach to see anyone, regardless of what they look like, playing the blame game with one hand and extending the other hand for something other than a hand UP. I only share this because I've heard the 'let it go, it was so long ago, it doesn't matter' BS too many times and some people don't have the perspective to look at how laws and policies that existed well before their time have an institutional and systemic impact on today's society.

Lesson over, now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Hey, sounds like Keenan Robinson has had a few good weeks!

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement.

lol theres a lot to disagree with here.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

I have almost said this same thing before but figured it was best unsaid. The fact is, the reservations that have casinos on them are making hundreds of millions a year. Those Indians have only known Mercedes and million dollar homes since they have had those casinos.

If they were willing to give some of that money away, they could easily pull some of the others out of poverty. But when Ray Halbritter wont even spend a few bucks to get a starving Indian a big mac, he shouldnt be using other Indians as his ammunition. Not to mention, hes not even an Indian. He is something like 20% Indian, absolutely 0% Oneida Indian (Im 12-15% Cherokee but certainly do not feel I have the right to call myself an Indian, and he isnt much more than I am). But then again, if an Oneida Indian speaks out against him, they are kicked off the reservation.

Blog: Race-Baiting Oneida Nation Leader Has Problems of His Own

Ray Halbritter treats Indians a helluva lot worse than most, if not all, Washington Redskins fans.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

wow....

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

You are dangerously close to coming off as a jerk.

You are generalizing horribly and not understanding (or just totally ignoring) the concept of power dynamics.

Just because a small few want to point fingers and not pull their weight doesn't mean an entire community doesn't want to. And as far as I know, Native Americans have never stomped their feet and complained about their plight. They made the best of what was an entirely racist and ridiculous situation thanks to Indian Termination Policy back between the 40's-60's.

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

+1 Regardless of how this is taken, he is right. Aforementioned groups back the F up and quit being money grabbers. If it hasn't been a problem for the past 20 years, why now?

Ochocinco said it best, "Pfft, child please."