Obama Care

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I can't speak for FD, but he wouldn't have employees with him for over 10 yrs. if he wasn't a good boss. I think most small business owners do have compassion for their employees, however at the end of the day as a business owner it's your second mortgage, or savings account, or whatever you used to acquire or build the business that's on the line every day. The business owner (and the 60 hr. + work weeks) is the ultimate factor in determining if the business suceeds of fails. If an employee decides not to show up for work you get it covered and move on. If a machine or part necessary to run your business fails you get it fixed and move on. All that comes out of profit.

As I said before, the employees won't take a pay cut when the economy goes bad, they won't cover the rent, they won't pay to fix a broken part...and they shouldn't. Their obligation to the business is to be there when they're supposed to be and put in good effort while "on the clock".

If the business fails, they go get another job. The business owner is the one that must declare bankruptcy or face years in rebuilding what he/she has lost.

That being said, there is a HUGE difference between small business and large, publicly held corporations controlled by boards. The shennanigans that go on at that level are a problem and are similar to what goes on with gov't. People on those boards are making decisions to benefit themselves using other people's money (shareholders).

I do agree with your point, but with a clarification for what I think. Folks who are more conservative believe more in self-determination and responsibility and don't normally have or expect a safety net from someone else (gov't), hence that makes them more self-concerned. Folks on the left have a more collective approach and hence believe gov't has the responsibility to provide things. I think both sides have compassion, the difference is the right believes it is their choice to be compassionate the left believes gov't should decide because many won't do it on their own.

Great post. And the last paragraph in bold is exactly what I was saying in my earlier post.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Daseal

... As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

But then you have to ask, what makes medical procedures so expensive that they cause bankruptcies?

I would argue malpractice lawsuits and government interference is what drives up the costs more than anything else. Take these points for instance:

-- You cannot purchase insurance policies across state lines, which would open the market up to the forces of competition. Why?

-- Various state mandates force insurance companies to offer non-essential coverage for things like hair transplant surgery, pregnancy, and alcohol and drug treatment coverage. Picking and choosing what specific coverage you'd like without government mandated items is illegal. Why? That does nothing but drive up the cost.

-- Employer provided coverage doesn't actually belong to you and personal ownership of those health policies is illegal, meaning you cannot take it with you if you leave that employer or you get fired. Again, WHY?

[Daseal]

Also, the fact that people will now go in and get preventative care will drastically cut down on emergency bills, which are far more expensive. I bet we see some savings within the medical community based on that alone. I want a country where people don't have to avoid the Dr. because they can't afford it.

[JoeRedskin]

Whoa whoa - nice generality there Matty. First, is FD running sweatshop? or is he providing a good wage to his employees? Does he treat them well in general? Doesn't that show a level of concern? All of a sudden your employer is a selfish prick if he is more concerned with keeping the business running and profitable? Do you understand that every additional mandated expense means fewer people employed by a small business?

"the greater good"?? Perhaps keeping more people employed as opposed to fewer with better benefits is the greater good.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Whoa whoa - nice generality there Matty. First, is FD running sweatshop? or is he providing a good wage to his employees? Does he treat them well in general? Doesn't that show a level of concern? All of a sudden your employer is a selfish prick if he is more concerned with keeping the business running and profitable? Do you understand that every additional mandated expense means fewer people employed by a small business?

"the greater good"?? Perhaps keeping more people employed as opposed to fewer with better benefits is the greater good.

Ding ding ding!!

[budw38]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Whoa whoa - nice generality there Matty. First, is FD running sweatshop? or is he providing a good wage to his employees? Does he treat them well in general? Doesn't that show a level of concern? All of a sudden your employer is a selfish prick if he is more concerned with keeping the business running and profitable? Do you understand that every additional mandated expense means fewer people employed by a small business?

"the greater good"?? Perhaps keeping more people employed as opposed to fewer with better benefits is the greater good.

I worded for FD , one day I showed up late , first he docked me pay , then he tried to make a cowboys jersey all day , when I said no , he hit me and stuff..... I'm so embarrassed

[MTK]

Well I was speaking in general, wasn't trying to hide that fact. Tell me it's not a big part of what this debate is about. Not saying either side is more wrong or right, it is what it is.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Spread the wealth. Gotcha.

I think the policies and thinking of the right in general encourages the initiative of the individual. It fosters more of an attitude of self-reliance instead of being provided for by big government. "Self-concerned" implies that they don't care about anyone else. I don't think that's true.

I thought self concerned was less harsh than self centered, and really what I mean is not selfish, just more concerned about his/her own immediate situation.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I thought self concerned was less harsh than self centered, and really what I mean is not selfish, just more concerned about his/her own immediate situation.

That may be true for some , probably like a father who uses " tough love " when rasing his son , so he will be " better " prepared for adulthood , when some may see the father as less compassioante ?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The right is selfish and says "F you" to the rest of society; The left is all about helping people and "the greater good".

Yah - No condescension in that sentiment.

Really not what I meant at all

[Ruhskins]

I'm beginning to think this is becoming a pointless thread. Just like in the real debate, those on the opposing side have dug in and won't budge, those that are for this reform keep attacking those that oppose it, and both side will shit on anyone who stands in the middle.

[MTK]

Some seem to be running wild with what I said so I want to clarify. I was simply referring to the differing views that the left/right has when it comes to social issues and programs such as welfare, national healthcare, etc.

I certainly was not trying to say everyone on the right is selfish and everyone on the left is generous. Just saying there are fundamental differences in the way both sides approach these social issues.

[firstdown]

Sense all you liberals are such giving people our club is having a fund raiser. 100% of all funds raised go to help hearing impaired children and if you cannot make it to the chilli cook off I'm sure your willing to donate to help the children. Chili Fest

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sense all you liberals are such giving people our club is having a fund raiser. 100% of all funds raised go to help hearing impaired children and if you cannot make it to the chilli cook off I'm sure your willing to donate to help the children. Chili Fest

I'd donate if given a proper donate link.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'd donate if given a proper donate link.

Here ya go:
http://www.suffolkchilifest.com/Spon...20-%202010.pdf