Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive

I think if the team had a benign logo like the scripted R or something that didn't have Native imagery it would be a non issue but the name plus the logo plus the PC times we live in multiplied by the media hype equals a firestorm.

It's just a matter of time before they relent and change it. The 'name changers' will eventually get smart and realize that the way to the change is through the team and league sponsors, not appealing to the team or league itself. The Gov't involvement is a joke, they have no jurisdiction or influence on it, they're just pandering as politicians often do. I've said before, the only way the Gov't can influence a change is if the FCC deems 'Redskins' a racial slur and threatens to fine any network that uses it.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I think if the team had a benign logo like the scripted R or something that didn't have Native imagery it would be a non issue but the name plus the logo plus the PC times we live in multiplied by the media hype equals a firestorm.

It's just a matter of time before they relent and change it. The 'name changers' will eventually get smart and realize that the way to the change is through the team and league sponsors, not appealing to the team or league itself. The Gov't involvement is a joke, they have no jurisdiction or influence on it, they're just pandering as politicians often do. I've said before, the only way the Gov't can influence a change is if the FCC deems 'Redskins' a racial slur and threatens to fine any network that uses it.

How can the logo be considered offensive when it was created, blessed, and presented by the Native Americans? That would then bring up this point. Are these Non-Native Americans assuming that Native Americans are too stupid to know when they should and should not be offended? Because honestly, that is the biggest message that these people in the PC movement are sending to the Native American community. And if I were a part of the Native American movement, I would strongly voice that these people, telling me what I should and should not be offended by, insults my intelligence and offends me more than some name of a sports team.

This is the argument that the anti-Redskins name group throws to the other side. "So you're telling us that you know more about what the Native Americans should and should not be offended by?" It's the same question to those in the PC movement. The only group whose voice matters in all of this is the Native Americans themselves. And they have been polled and an overwhelming majority has said it is not offensive to them. Why can't people just accept that and move on? Other than having some losing seasons on the field, what injustice has the Washington Redskins really done to the community?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

How can the logo be considered offensive when it was created, blessed, and presented by the Native Americans? That would then bring up this point. Are these Non-Native Americans assuming that Native Americans are too stupid to know when they should and should not be offended? Because honestly, that is the biggest message that these people in the PC movement are sending to the Native American community. And if I were a part of the Native American movement, I would strongly voice that these people, telling me what I should and should not be offended by, insults my intelligence and offends me more than some name of a sports team.

This is the argument that the anti-Redskins name group throws to the other side. "So you're telling us that you know more about what the Native Americans should and should not be offended by?" It's the same question to those in the PC movement. The only group whose voice matters in all of this is the Native Americans themselves. And they have been polled and an overwhelming majority has said it is not offensive to them. Why can't people just accept that and move on? Other than having some losing seasons on the field, what injustice has the Washington Redskins really done to the community?

That wasn't really the point I was making. I was referring to the point SS made about connecting 'Redskins' to Native Americans. I was saying that if the imagery didn't reflect an Indian, most non Redskins/football fans wouldn't think about it that deeply. For example, what mental image immediately comes with Packer, Steeler or Brown? Probably nothing because it's non-descript. If we just had an R on the side of the helmet, people wouldn't connect the dots as easily and wouldn't be able to layer levels of offended outrage.

You do make a great point however that this fight is being taken up primarily by non-Natives who are trying to make a name for themselves. There are some Native communities involved but as a whole they have bigger issues they are focusing on.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

That wasn't really the point I was making. I was referring to the point SS made about connecting 'Redskins' to Native Americans. I was saying that if the imagery didn't reflect an Indian, most non Redskins/football fans wouldn't think about it that deeply. For example, what mental image immediately comes with Packer, Steeler or Brown? Probably nothing because it's non-descript. If we just had an R on the side of the helmet, people wouldn't connect the dots as easily and wouldn't be able to layer levels of offended outrage.

You do make a great point however that this fight is being taken up primarily by non-Natives who are trying to make a name for themselves. There are some Native communities involved but as a whole they have bigger issues they are focusing on.

Yeah, my position, all along is, if it truly is as horrible as this PC movement is making it out to be, then let the Native Americans, as a whole, decide that. They shouldn't need anybody else being their mouthpiece. I can't decide either way, because for one thing, I'm a white guy with probably no Native American blood in my veins. Also, I'm biased because I'm a big fan of this team called the Washington Redskins. Losing the name means losing its identity, IMHO. I know others could deal with it, and in time, I probably could as well, but I can't help to believe that the name is and has always been meant to honor Native Americans not to disparage them. But as I said, it's not for me to decide, it's up to the Native Americans.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive

This is exactly the way I've always thought of it.

It's also why I get pissed when I hear the argument "You wouldn't go onto a Reservation and call someone a Redskins to their face, would you?" Well, no, I wouldn't, because I honestly don't ever think of it as a term meaning anything other than a name for the football team from the city that my family has lived in & around for generations.
I also don't make a habit of calling tall people 'Giants', I don't refer to people of Scandinavian decent 'Vikings, I don't say I'm from a 'Fightin' Irish Catholic family, and I don't actually believe that Drew Brees is a 'Saint.'

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Good point SS

[Ruhskins]

New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton says safety Jairus Byrd's back surgery won't keep him out of training camp - ESPN

Maybe it is a good thing that our crappy [/sarcasm] FO didn't go after him. They say it is not a big deal, but it is a back issue. Not good IMO.

[scowan]

I appreciate all of you that responded to my comments. Like I said its not a perfect world and not everyone has the same opportunities, It just seems like some can't or won't rise above their situations.

On a related sports note, how would like to be Donald Sterling........ you offend a group of people, your fellow owners, and the whole world, and then you sell your team for $2 billion. LMAO!!!

Maybe Dan Snyder should stick to his guns until the rest of the league gets pissed enough at him that they force him to sell the Redskins. CHA-CHING!!!

[over the mountain]

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.

agreed in full

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.

Honestly if we could keep the logo, uniform, etc I would be more then happy to see the team name changed to Warriors.

Ironically enough it might just be trying to deflect attention but I remember asking myself when the name thing first came out isn't Chief Wahoo more offensive? Which is kind of like saying "Sure I called you an albino white man, I mean kracker, I mean European American, but that guy over there said that you guys have small roosters."

Originally Posted by donofriose

Washington Based NFL Team Headquarted in Ashburn, Virginia with a stadium located in Landover, Maryland ask fans to tweet their #WashingtonBasedNFLTeamHeadquartedinAshburnVAwStad iumlocatedinLandoverMdPride to Sen. Harry Reid. What could go wrong?

It predictably ended poorly for them.

Fixed your link description brah. Yur Welc0m3.

[rainsleetorHail]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Honestly if we could keep the logo, uniform, etc I would be more then happy to see the team name changed to Warriors.

"Warriors"? But then I'd be offended.

The Redskins name is obviously not intended to slur any group, or else the team wouldn't have given THEMSELVES the name.

It has an entirely new meaning nowadays anyway--it refers to Washington's NFL team.

[skinsfan69]

The Redskins just need to keep quiet and stop responding to all the noise. Apparently someone at Redskin Park told the fans to go the some Congressmen's Twitter account and say positive things about the name? Really? Why do they care about some Congressmen running off at the mouth? Then Bruce Allen is writing up some letter? Just shut up and ignore it.

[NC_Skins]

Year after year we continue to see dumbasses step up to the plate to see who can lose the most money all because they can't stop smoking weed.

Daryl Washington Suspended For Year

Card's GM wasn't too please with this, but at least they save close to 6 million...lol





@Jason_OTC
Because Washington's suspension is drug related he will automatically forfeit all that bonus money I discussed earlier. #AZCardinals


@Jason_OTC 2h
So he should end up losing just under $5.9 million due to the suspension which is a huge $ figure #azcardinals



Dude is going to lose 3mil in bonuses and 2.9 in base salary this year. Over 5 million because he's a dipshit.