Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I would be more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo simply because it's turning their race into a cartoon character, where as the Redskins logo is not. To me, the Redskins logo looks quite honorable, and should be since it was the Native American community that provided the team with the logo.

agreed in full

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

That wasn't really the point I was making. I was referring to the point SS made about connecting 'Redskins' to Native Americans. I was saying that if the imagery didn't reflect an Indian, most non Redskins/football fans wouldn't think about it that deeply. For example, what mental image immediately comes with Packer, Steeler or Brown? Probably nothing because it's non-descript. If we just had an R on the side of the helmet, people wouldn't connect the dots as easily and wouldn't be able to layer levels of offended outrage.

You do make a great point however that this fight is being taken up primarily by non-Natives who are trying to make a name for themselves. There are some Native communities involved but as a whole they have bigger issues they are focusing on.

Yeah, my position, all along is, if it truly is as horrible as this PC movement is making it out to be, then let the Native Americans, as a whole, decide that. They shouldn't need anybody else being their mouthpiece. I can't decide either way, because for one thing, I'm a white guy with probably no Native American blood in my veins. Also, I'm biased because I'm a big fan of this team called the Washington Redskins. Losing the name means losing its identity, IMHO. I know others could deal with it, and in time, I probably could as well, but I can't help to believe that the name is and has always been meant to honor Native Americans not to disparage them. But as I said, it's not for me to decide, it's up to the Native Americans.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Yeah, my position, all along is, if it truly is as horrible as this PC movement is making it out to be, then let the Native Americans, as a whole, decide that. They shouldn't need anybody else being their mouthpiece. I can't decide either way, because for one thing, I'm a white guy with probably no Native American blood in my veins. Also, I'm biased because I'm a big fan of this team called the Washington Redskins. Losing the name means losing its identity, IMHO. I know others could deal with it, and in time, I probably could as well, but I can't help to believe that the name is and has always been meant to honor Native Americans not to disparage them. But as I said, it's not for me to decide, it's up to the Native Americans.

I think the leading group in this movement is the Oneida Nation, who are Native Americans. It's been recently that the likes of Harry Reid and others have become involved.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think the leading group in this movement is the Oneida Nation, who are Native Americans. It's been recently that the likes of Harry Reid have become involved and others have been involved.

Yes, the Oneida Nation is involved, but you gotta remember they are involved because there's money to be had. The Oneida Nation is the richest Native American tribe in the country. I think they're the ones who own all or most of the casinos in several areas of the country. My question is, why were they not involved several, several years ago? I mean, if the term "Redskin" has always been meant to disparage Native Americans, then surely they, along with other tribes, would have stepped in decades ago and put an end to it.

[skinsfan69]

The Redskins just need to keep quiet and stop responding to all the noise. Apparently someone at Redskin Park told the fans to go the some Congressmen's Twitter account and say positive things about the name? Really? Why do they care about some Congressmen running off at the mouth? Then Bruce Allen is writing up some letter? Just shut up and ignore it.

[NC_Skins]

Year after year we continue to see dumbasses step up to the plate to see who can lose the most money all because they can't stop smoking weed.

Daryl Washington Suspended For Year

Card's GM wasn't too please with this, but at least they save close to 6 million...lol





@Jason_OTC
Because Washington's suspension is drug related he will automatically forfeit all that bonus money I discussed earlier. #AZCardinals


@Jason_OTC 2h
So he should end up losing just under $5.9 million due to the suspension which is a huge $ figure #azcardinals



Dude is going to lose 3mil in bonuses and 2.9 in base salary this year. Over 5 million because he's a dipshit.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

wow....

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The Redskins just need to keep quiet and stop responding to all the noise. Apparently someone at Redskin Park told the fans to go the some Congressmen's Twitter account and say positive things about the name? Really? Why do they care about some Congressmen running off at the mouth? Then Bruce Allen is writing up some letter? Just shut up and ignore it.

Redskins ask fans to tweet their #RedskinsPride to Sen. Harry Reid. What could go wrong?

It predictably ended poorly for them.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Year after year we continue to see dumbasses step up to the plate to see who can lose the most money all because they can't stop smoking weed.

Daryl Washington Suspended For Year

Card's GM wasn't too please with this, but at least they save close to 6 million...lol





@Jason_OTC
Because Washington's suspension is drug related he will automatically forfeit all that bonus money I discussed earlier. #AZCardinals


@Jason_OTC 2h
So he should end up losing just under $5.9 million due to the suspension which is a huge $ figure #azcardinals



Dude is going to lose 3mil in bonuses and 2.9 in base salary this year. Over 5 million because he's a dipshit.

Lay off the WEEDUH!!!!!!!!!!!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive

Its the emblem. Dallas vs Washington. Cowboys vs the Indians. I think its as obvious as people associating The Eagles with birds. However like Ive said before and someone else said, I think the goofy Cleveland Indian character is so offensive. The Redskins have always made me think of the natives in a very proud way.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

Well unfortunately there are alot of native americans and blacks that are born on a reservation or in a hood because that is where our ancestors put their ancestors. Not exactly a level playing field to begin your climb on the ladder of success. You are greatly underestimating the past and discounting its shaping of the future here.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

You are dangerously close to coming off as a jerk.

You are generalizing horribly and not understanding (or just totally ignoring) the concept of power dynamics.

Just because a small few want to point fingers and not pull their weight doesn't mean an entire community doesn't want to. And as far as I know, Native Americans have never stomped their feet and complained about their plight. They made the best of what was an entirely racist and ridiculous situation thanks to Indian Termination Policy back between the 40's-60's.

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

+1 Regardless of how this is taken, he is right. Aforementioned groups back the F up and quit being money grabbers. If it hasn't been a problem for the past 20 years, why now?

Ochocinco said it best, "Pfft, child please."

[NC_Skins]

@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal


Gordon issued speeding ticket

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal


Gordon issued speeding ticket

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

Psh, if people like Pacman Jones and Mike Vick can't get kicked out of the league, nobody will. Especially not over weed possession. Josh Gordon can toke till he chokes, but at worst he'd be indefinitely suspended.