Who is Kirk Cousins?

[rocnrik]

Agian i agree 10000% with you!!

[SCRedskinsFan]

30gut:

"But, ive prolly already given this discussion more credence then it warranted."

Classic.

[30gut]

a QB can be 29th in the league in passing yards per game and play well. That's all he had to do to win. Good for him. All QBs should be that lucky.

Even the statement you're making above is confusing and contradicts some of your own statements during this discussion.

I'm surprised that you are actually holding up passing yards/passing attempts as somehow a meaningful measure of QB play. Here I thought the object was to win games not post pretty passing yards.

YPA, QBR, passer rating, PFF QB rankings, FBO, team offensive DVOA impact, 4th qtr comebacks, game winning drives, with a plus given for rushing yards and 1st downs and then there is the unquantifiable "play making" which I now wonder you would even acknowledge that Wilson possesses. I've posted many of these stats already, I would take the time to post them all but they would likely be ignored like Seattle jump in offensive DVOA from ~20th to 1st. 1st.

Lol, passing yards per game. Flacco and McKown must be top 10 QBs in your book.

It's quotes like this that make me wonder if you're sincere, or just saying crazy stuff to get a reaction.

If they would have propped up RGIII like they are Kirk. . . Infinity and beyond!

That's funny because I've been thinking the same thing about your whole argument.
Wow, I didn't realize how hung up you are on my disagreement with Jay's handling of Griffin.

But yeah I sincerely believe Jay's focus on the passing game comes at the expense of the run game.
And yes I think the way Jay/McVay call the passing game protects Kirk.

i'll try to leave it with this...

DYoungJelly:...But, if a killer defense and a brutal running game can prop up Kapernick and Wilson, maybe, just maybe it could turn a QB who is setting passing records into a consistent winner.

Originally Posted by 30gut

If Kirk can become as "propped up" as Wilson was during their SB runs I'll gladly take that kind of propped up prodction from Kirk.

[DYoungJelly]

Not remotely close to what I said.

I didn't ignore anything. In post #715, I said that I thought DVOA was a great measurement.

I also said, Wilson was the 8th ranked QB playing in front of the #2 RB to make the most efficient offense. Considering the fact that they ran the most and passed the least of any team, I believe Lynch is more a factor than Wilson.

In the same post, I credited Wilson for being the difference in 2011 and 2012 that took them to the most efficient offense. He was replacing Tavaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst who probably shouldn't have been starting in the NFL.

I believe passing attempts compared to running attempts and passing yardage is a reflection of where a teams' production comes from not how to rate a QB. Wilson didn't have to shoulder the load to win games as I've said in multiple posts on this stupid thread because he had a great running back to carry him.

I also said he was good when he did actually throw the ball in multiple posts.

But cheers.

[punch it in]

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by punch it in

httr.

[rocnrik]

Skins have way to many issues to blame Anything on the QB! Captain Kirk is a bright spot on a rather gloomy Roster. yes we have a few play makers in Reed,DJax, but the rest are interchangeable players. we have Trent Williams He is the best player on the team end of story. The running game is horrible yet Kirk has played well. The carolina panthers are the best team in the NFC and maybe the entire league it has taken them a while to get good..they kept adding the missing pieces till they had the team the head coach wanted. We need to do the same..Cousins play gives us a chance at getting better as a whole..We don't need to draft another QB. There is not a college QB that could come close to Kirk right now. Lets get a TOP pass rusher..another top Oline..some DB help ..and maybe a new D coordinator. even if we don't make the playoffs this year the Skins appear to be making progress.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

Skins have way to many issues to blame Anything on the QB! Captain Kirk is a bright spot on a rather gloomy Roster. yes we have a few play makers in Reed,DJax, but the rest are interchangeable players. we have Trent Williams He is the best player on the team end of story. The running game is horrible yet Kirk has played well. The carolina panthers are the best team in the NFC and maybe the entire league it has taken them a while to get good..they kept adding the missing pieces till they had the team the head coach wanted. We need to do the same..Cousins play gives us a chance at getting better as a whole..We don't need to draft another QB. There is not a college QB that could come close to Kirk right now. Lets get a TOP pass rusher..another top Oline..some DB help ..and maybe a new D coordinator. even if we don't make the playoffs this year the Skins appear to be making progress.

Hail this!

[JoeRedskin]

I won't go so far as to say KC is a "bright spot" on the roster, but I will give you that there are bigger problems than QB right now. Further, unless there is some better option I am not seeing, I expect he is the best option at QB for next year's roster.

With that said, KI Skins' info says to me that he is a very average QB. Jury is still out for this year, but, every time he has the opportunity to pull away from the pack (like last week or the 1st game against the Giants), he goes flat.

[Hog1]

If you do not have KC for next year....who do you have?
The better the roster gets around him, the shinier KC will get. SM is well aware of this and if a better alternative presents itself, I am confident he will act on it.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by Hog1

If you do not have KC for next year....who do you have?
The better the roster gets around him, the shinier KC will get. SM is well aware of this and if a better alternative presents itself, I am confident he will act on it.

The question that have is this: will he ever amount to anything larger than just a game manager?

[rocnrik]

IF Kirk is not a bright spot on roster how the heck did he win NFC player of week not once but twice..what other redskin player has done that?? What is a ELITE QB anyway? does that mean you can put that guy on any team and he takes them all the way? does the team around the QB make him elite or not..does the coach or system have anything to do with that ELITE status? please tell us!! Are you saying that Brady could come in here with this staff and system and win us 10 games every year? How do you explain all the other so called elite QB's that have fallen on hard times lately..ROGERS,WILSON,LUCK..OH they are not elite anymore because they are not winning..Let me get this straight and help me out.IF your TEAM wins you are considered an ELITE QB if your TEAM struggles you are not..the common theme is the word TEAM..someday some of you will understand this concept .

[JoeRedskin]

rocnrik, great. Won NFC player of the week twice. Yay. However, bottom line, to date, he has roughly as many INT's and fumbles as TD passes. Just off the top of my head, an elite QB has about a 3:1 / TD:TO ratio. A good QB a 2:1 ratio. An average QB has about a 1:1 ratio.

I am not going to repeat past arguments about KC and his ceiling. Nothing this year has changed my perception of him as being consistently inconsistent. I believe he has reached his ceiling. He can win with a good team around him and when he hits on most cylinders.

If he puts a string of six games in a row with a 2:1 or better TD/TO ratio, I will be convinced he has taken a step. I fully expect, however, that he will continue his ~ 1:1 ratio.

Kirk's TD/TO ratio were:

2012 - 4/4 (3 games; 3 INT's)
2013 - 4/10 (5 games; 7 INT's)
2014 - 10/11 (6 games; 9 INT's)
2015 - 15/13 (11 games; 10 INT's)

Teams can win with numbers like these, but not consistently. To me, and to be a better than average QB, over the long run you have to score twice as much as you turn the ball over.

Again, I still believe he is the best option at this point and likely next year.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

rocnrik, great. Won NFC player of the week twice. Yay. However, bottom line, to date, he has roughly as many INT's and fumbles as TD passes. Just off the top of my head, an elite QB has about a 3:1 / TD:TO ratio. A good QB a 2:1 ratio. An average QB has about a 1:1 ratio.

I am not going to repeat past arguments about KC and his ceiling. Nothing this year has changed my perception of him as being consistently inconsistent. I believe he has reached his ceiling. He can win with a good team around him and when he hits on most cylinders.

If he puts a string of six games in a row with a 2:1 or better TD/TO ratio, I will be convinced he has taken a step. I fully expect, however, that he will continue his ~ 1:1 ratio.

Kirk's TD/TO ratio were:

2012 - 4/4 (3 games; 3 INT's)
2013 - 4/10 (5 games; 7 INT's)
2014 - 10/11 (6 games; 9 INT's)
2015 - 15/13 (11 games; 10 INT's)

Teams can win with numbers like these, but not consistently. To me, and to be a better than average QB, over the long run you have to score twice as much as you turn the ball over.

Again, I still believe he is the best option at this point and likely next year.

Allow me to cherry-pick my own stats. In the first 6 games of this year, Kirk threw 6 TD passes and 8 INT's. In the last 5 games, Kirk threw 10 TD's and 2 INT's. Only 3 of his 7 fumbles were lost. There's a trend for you to consider.

[WRSK1NS]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Allow me to cherry-pick my own stats. In the first 6 games of this year, Kirk threw 6 TD passes and 8 INT's. In the last 5 games, Kirk threw 10 TD's and 2 INT's. Only 3 of his 7 fumbles were lost. There's a trend for you to consider.

Exactly numbers are trending in the right direction. Some people will not be satisfied even if he were to win MVP