Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

[Giantone]

This story is not going away ,I do believe it is stupid the name has been around for too long for it to be offensive now. With that said the only thing I would do if I'm Dan is a small compromise ,go back to the yellow helmet with the R and spear or even make it burgundy keep the colors and just call them the "skins" as in shirts and skins ,done .

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Not sure how changing a major brand would result in some sort of financial windfall. A lot of alienated fans wouldn't exactly be lining up to spend their hard earned $$ out of protest.

Think about it with another team. If the Steelers were to change their name and logo does anyone think that would be a good thing for them? A hardcore passionate fan base isn't going to forgive and forget overnight.

Snyder ultimately has to do right by his fanbase, which is what he's trying to do here. But I think you and I both know that the fans of this organization would absolutely get behind the new name of the team the second they change the name. If 20 years of struggling on the field hasn't weakened the fanbase, what the heck is a name change going to do?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by ethat001

I appreciate your candor, but it does show that you don't have much insight into the complex legacy of racial issues in the US. The sad part is that most people not affected don't. I'm not white, black, or Native American - but I appreciate the history, and I've actually been to inner city neighborhoods and also to native american reservations. I won't change your mind in a message board, but I disagree on your views.

Few points:

1) Obama is as much white as he is black.

2) The financial profits for casinos on reservations are overstated (see article here. Only a few near major cities make substantial profits, and a good portion of Native Americans are still very poor and on welfare. You're essentially completely wrong.

3) Would everyone here be fine renaming the team "Rednecks", "Black Panthers" or "Jihadi's"? I think it's fair to say that a word or name can have powerful connotations to a subset of people. Redskins is such an old term, it has lost much of it's initial meaning, but let's be honest - the initial meaning was not something to be proud of..



Again, I'm actually fine keeping the name Redskins.. but I think the talk on this thread demonstrates the racial insensitivities that prove the other side's points..

I think that's up for considerable debate. Have not heard a compelling/definitive argument that the initial meaning was offensive.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think that's up for considerable debate. Have not heard a compelling/definitive argument that the initial meaning was offensive.

How many people actually use the word Redskins as a derogatory term? Feels like when the name comes up, people automatically think of the football team.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think that's up for considerable debate. Have not heard a compelling/definitive argument that the initial meaning was offensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

This is what I think people are referring to when it was used (if ever) in the terms to describe this .Now I know it is not the best or most reliable source but it is what most people go to for info .Thing is it is the only place I find this explanation for a negative connotation to the word .It also talks about the comparison to the word negro but I am sure that has always had a negative slant on it and personally don't think the two are the same .Unfortunately this is beginning to snowball and something will have to be done sooner or later .

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Bruce's letter doesn't mean squat. If many members of race of people are offended by a name, then they are offended.

The name must go. In time, it will go. Dan Snyder is on the wrong side of history on this issue.

I'm sure you're aware that there's a number of high schools here in America with a majority Native-American population that still use the nickname Redskins. Suzan Harjo should perhaps unite her fellow "offended" Native Americans if she wants to succeed.

In addition, there's considerable evidence that the name did not begin as a racist term. And obviously it's not used as a derogatory term today. So why must it go?

Hail To the Redskins: NFL Must Save Name, Image, Legacy

Redskins: The debate over the Washington football team's name incorrectly invokes history.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Snyder ultimately has to do right by his fanbase, which is what he's trying to do here. But I think you and I both know that the fans of this organization would absolutely get behind the new name of the team the second they change the name. If 20 years of struggling on the field hasn't weakened the fanbase, what the heck is a name change going to do?

Exactly. If anything a name change might help as it would provide a clean slate after all the years of front office dysfunction and lack of on-field performance.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mooby

How many people actually use the word Redskins as a derogatory term? Feels like when the name comes up, people automatically think of the football team.

Which was my point earlier. No one thinks Native Americans when they think of "Redskins" because truth be told most people simply don't think of Native Americans. Let's say the name changes, do we really believe all these clamoring for a name change are gonna say "Well'that's just the first step. Let's improve their living conditions, address issues such as illiteracy, alcoholism, poverty in the NA community" No....Hell to the No. They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made!"

I'm not a gung ho keep the name at all costs guy, but the fake sincerity of those that demand the name change irks me

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by That Guy

what a terrible terrible name. we already have the patriots. why not just call them the Washington People? that's just as generically stupid and awful.

Lol. The Washington People. I love it. Although the animal folks might be offended. So the Washington Creatures of God? Wait the atheists. The Washington Inhabitants of the Planet Earth!

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Which was my point earlier. No one thinks Native Americans when they think of "Redskins" because truth be told most people simply don't think of Native Americans. Let's say the name changes, do we really believe all these clamoring for a name change are gonna say "Well'that's just the first step. Let's improve their living conditions, address issues such as illiteracy, alcoholism, poverty in the NA community" No....Hell to the No. They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made!"

I'm not a gung ho keep the name at all costs guy, but the fake sincerity of those that demand the name change irks me

Yes well said and not only with this issue, but many others as well.

But with this specific issue, I'd like to know why sudden change which caused them to be offended? When did term "Redskins" suddenly cross the line as derogatory?

Back to your point of "They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made"...that is a good way to put it, because these "little" and "meaningless" victories of today's culture are the easiest. When it comes to the "heavy lifting", this/our generation of people just doesnt get it.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Which was my point earlier. No one thinks Native Americans when they think of "Redskins" because truth be told most people simply don't think of Native Americans. Let's say the name changes, do we really believe all these clamoring for a name change are gonna say "Well'that's just the first step. Let's improve their living conditions, address issues such as illiteracy, alcoholism, poverty in the NA community" No....Hell to the No. They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made!"



I'm not a gung ho keep the name at all costs guy, but the fake sincerity of those that demand the name change irks me

I agree 100 %. They could give two craps about them. I still say that most people think of Indians or Native Americans when you say Redskins. Granted they think of the football team first, but you must quickly assimilate if you have ever seen our emblem no?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Which was my point earlier. No one thinks Native Americans when they think of "Redskins" because truth be told most people simply don't think of Native Americans. Let's say the name changes, do we really believe all these clamoring for a name change are gonna say "Well'that's just the first step. Let's improve their living conditions, address issues such as illiteracy, alcoholism, poverty in the NA community" No....Hell to the No. They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made!"

I'm not a gung ho keep the name at all costs guy, but the fake sincerity of those that demand the name change irks me

Well said and I agree.

But I also see the tidal wave of uninformed initiative which will only get louder and more annoying until the name is changed.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Which was my point earlier. No one thinks Native Americans when they think of "Redskins" because truth be told most people simply don't think of Native Americans. Let's say the name changes, do we really believe all these clamoring for a name change are gonna say "Well'that's just the first step. Let's improve their living conditions, address issues such as illiteracy, alcoholism, poverty in the NA community" No....Hell to the No. They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made!"

I'm not a gung ho keep the name at all costs guy, but the fake sincerity of those that demand the name change irks me

Seems like this is a trending thing nowadays. Also great post, something tells me you're probably right.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Which was my point earlier. No one thinks Native Americans when they think of "Redskins" because truth be told most people simply don't think of Native Americans. Let's say the name changes, do we really believe all these clamoring for a name change are gonna say "Well'that's just the first step. Let's improve their living conditions, address issues such as illiteracy, alcoholism, poverty in the NA community" No....Hell to the No. They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made!"

I'm not a gung ho keep the name at all costs guy, but the fake sincerity of those that demand the name change irks me

/drops mic

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Yes well said and not only with this issue, but many others as well.



But with this specific issue, I'd like to know why sudden change which caused them to be offended? When did term "Redskins" suddenly cross the line as derogatory?



Back to your point of "They'll just pat themselves on the back and say "Look at the change we made"...that is a good way to put it, because these "little" and "meaningless" victories of today's culture are the easiest. When it comes to the "heavy lifting", this/our generation of people just doesnt get it.

As far as the name suddenly becoming offensive. I think - even though we all know its political bs - that the fact that regular people will maybe back the oneida tribe or bob effin costas, etc about it being offensive is just public awareness. Hell it wasnt really that long ago that restrooms had signs for "colored" people. The premise of appeasing all people is wonderful, but as i have said a million times - i dont think its offensive to most native Americans. Bruces letter says it all imo.