Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy

[TheMalcolmConnection]

To be a further extension of MY dong piece, that is why I own the Mazda. It looks like a tadger!

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Subliminal messages ya'll, subliminal messages.

[Summo]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Are you aware that most honda's, toyota's and hyundai's are made here in america?

That's not entirely true, they are "Assembled" in America to get around the tariffs of importing there cars already assembled as opposed to shipping the parts over in boxes for us Americans to assemble.

[Summo]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I go on the reputation of the cars themselves, not the makers. If one model of the Geo Metro is supposedly superior to the Civic, I would get it (after LOTS of research).

Just because a car is American, Japanese or Hindii, doesn't mean it's going to be a bad car. A lot of parts come from different manufacturers. I have a Mazda3 and it most of the inside parts are Ford Focus, the transmission is Volvo and there's some random parts inside and out from other places.

That's because Ford owns all those companies.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

And besides, right now you're mentioning cars that are friggin 20 years old. Nobody would buy a 1985 vehicle now. If you're serious about buying a car right now, you're talking about something from 2000 or later. Quality has changed a ton over the last 20 years.

Toyota and Honda have been pwning GM for the last five years in the ratings. Those are the relevant years to this discussion, since few would buy a car older than that.

Well, I was just responding to your comments that the rakings weren't reliable because they didn't address long term durability. Would you prefer I stick to discussing my former 2001 Stratus? Ok, I never had a problem with that.

And again, I don't think it's fair to say Toyota and Honda have been owning GM, since GM is comprised of Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Saturn, Saab, GMC, and Cadillac. And many ratings, just like anything, are completely subjective. Just because a Motortrend editor likes the layout of a Camry's dashboard doesn't mean I will. Reliablity? Ok, they've beaten out some of GM's line. Performance? Don't think so. Features for the same price? Not from what I've seen. Again, just because you value certain things and discount others (like performance) doesn't mean it's a verifiable fact that Toyota is better than Pontiac. It means it's your preference.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

They have a reputation because people like you keep making these silly posts!

Actually I think you are right on mostly here. It really does come down to what's important and personal experiences. I've never had my American cars really let me down. If I had a ton of bad exeriences, I might be singing a different tune. And to me, performance is a really big deal. I simply can't drive a Camry with a 4 cylinder engine because my penis is just too small for that.......so I need something that can represent a bigger extension of my schwanger. I also have this road rage problem that mandates a faster car to either catch up to someone to flip them off or to get away from the wrong guy who I just flipped off.

Seriously though, I think my only real problem was people making blanket generalizations. I'm not going to sit here and tell people the Neon is a great car. But that doesn't mean the Cadillac CTS or Envoy or Charger or G6 can't be good either. Just like it'd be unfair to lable a suzuki or isuzu a great car just because it's japanese. If people want to make specific recommendations about specific cars they have some knowledge about, that's great.......but not at the expense of ripping an entire country's automobiles.

Nice post, I'm with you, especially on the bolded part.

I think to sum it all up, it's safe to say that the way to go about buying a car would be:

1) Figure out what kind of features are important to you (safety, performance, styling, reliability, price, cost of maintenance, gas mileage, etc.). This helps you narrow your search to certain classes and models.

2) Take in data from Consumer Reports, JD Power, Motor Trend, and any other pertinent data you can find. If you're looking at a used 2002 model though, make sure you find ratings for the 2002 model. Don't read a rating on the 2006 and assume it applies. And if you're looking for a used model, find a used car rating for it. The new car rating that came out on the 2002 model will not apply as well as a used car rating written in 2006. This research helps you narrow your focus to a few models.

3) Test drive a couple and compare how they feel. If you're a performance guy like PSU, place more emphasis on Test Driving than on the research. If you're like me and don't care much about how the car looks or feels, place the emphasis on the research.

4) Find market pricing data. Look on the internet for dealer invoice prices for each model you like. Expect to pay 200-500 above invoice. This gives you a better feel for guaging prices than comparing sticker price.

5) Buy at the end of the calendar month. Dealers look to move cars faster at the end of the month to push the sales onto their books for the month. Buying at the end of a quarter, or best yet, near the end of a model year (July-August) gives you more negotiating power.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Well, I was just responding to your comments that the rakings weren't reliable because they didn't address long term durability. Would you prefer I stick to discussing my former 2001 Stratus? Ok, I never had a problem with that.

And again, I don't think it's fair to say Toyota and Honda have been owning GM, since GM is comprised of Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Saturn, Saab, GMC, and Cadillac. And many ratings, just like anything, are completely subjective. Just because a Motortrend editor likes the layout of a Camry's dashboard doesn't mean I will. Reliablity? Ok, they've beaten out some of GM's line. Performance? Don't think so. Features for the same price? Not from what I've seen. Again, just because you value certain things and discount others (like performance) doesn't mean it's a verifiable fact that Toyota is better than Pontiac. It means it's your preference.

We're having trouble here because of our difference in focus, I think. When I talk about ratings, I'm talking about the scientific tests that are done which measure the reliability of a car. Those ratings are as objective as it gets, they simply measure the frequency and severity of problems.

But there are ratings done where people are basically writing their opinions of a car's performance. And you're right, those are subjective.

That's my fault, I wasn't clear. Again, as you can see I'm focusing on how often a car breaks down and how costly it is to fix. Because the 2nd most important thing to me when it comes to cars is money (second to safety); what does it cost to buy, what does it cost to finance, what does it cost to fix, what does it cost to fuel. But we're clearly different, performance is more important to you than reliability. And that's cool.

Step one for any car buyer is to figure out what kind of driver they are. You and I definitely have a feel for that at this point.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nice post, I'm with you, especially on the bolded part.

I think to sum it all up, it's safe to say that the way to go about buying a car would be:

1) Figure out what kind of features are important to you (safety, performance, styling, reliability, price, cost of maintenance, gas mileage, etc.). This helps you narrow your search to certain classes and models.

2) Take in data from Consumer Reports, JD Power, Motor Trend, and any other pertinent data you can find. If you're looking at a used 2002 model though, make sure you find ratings for the 2002 model. Don't read a rating on the 2006 and assume it applies. And if you're looking for a used model, find a used car rating for it. The new car rating that came out on the 2002 model will not apply as well as a used car rating written in 2006. This research helps you narrow your focus to a few models.

3) Test drive a couple and compare how they feel. If you're a performance guy like PSU, place more emphasis on Test Driving than on the research. If you're like me and don't care much about how the car looks or feels, place the emphasis on the research.

4) Find market pricing data. Look on the internet for dealer invoice prices for each model you like. Expect to pay 200-500 above invoice. This gives you a better feel for guaging prices than comparing sticker price.

5) Buy at the end of the calendar month. Dealers look to move cars faster at the end of the month to push the sales onto their books for the month. Buying at the end of a quarter, or best yet, near the end of a model year (July-August) gives you more negotiating power.

I am in 100% agreement with this. And as to #4, I would recommend Kelly Blue Book (www.kbb.com). I just used them to get the fair value on my trade in and to know the general invoice price on the car before I even walked through the door. I got a great deal by pretty much printing everything out and saying "I know what the heck I'm talking about, here it is, either make it happen or I walk". It cut out at least two or three rounds of waiting while the guy goes to his manager, comes back, goes back to his manager, comes back, goes back again, comes back and claims he's not making any money on the car, goes back again........

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

We're having trouble here because of our difference in focus, I think. When I talk about ratings, I'm talking about the scientific tests that are done which measure the reliability of a car. Those ratings are as objective as it gets, they simply measure the frequency and severity of problems.

But there are ratings done where people are basically writing their opinions of a car's performance. And you're right, those are subjective.

That's my fault, I wasn't clear. Again, as you can see I'm focusing on how often a car breaks down and how costly it is to fix. Because the 2nd most important thing to me when it comes to cars is money (second to safety); what does it cost to buy, what does it cost to finance, what does it cost to fix, what does it cost to fuel. But we're clearly different, performance is more important to you than reliability. And that's cool.

Step one for any car buyer is to figure out what kind of driver they are. You and I definitely have a feel for that at this point.

Makes sense.

And just let me also add that capabilities are really important to me as well (not just in terms of raw performance, but also in terms of luxury, towing capacity, functionality, features, etc.).....and in my experience I've been able to get more for my money in those departments buying American. Admittedly, yes, reliablity ratings and resale value aren't typically as important to me in a general sense. Of course, I always check to see that the specific car doesn't have any reliablity concerns or recurring problems areas......but the fact that "Hondas" are generally more reliable than "GMC's" doesn't mean much to me because every model is different (which is why I really liked your 5-step process so much......the issue is more about the specific model for the specific year than it is about generalities with the manufacturer).

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

comes back and claims he's not making any money on the car

Geez, don't they all try this one? I don't think I have ever bought a car that the dealer was actually making money on or wasn't going "backwards" on. No wonder all these dealerships are going out of husiness.


Sarcasm intended on that last part there.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Geez, don't they all try this one? I don't think I have ever bought a car that the dealer was actually making money on or wasn't going "backwards" on. No wonder all these dealerships are going out of husiness.


Sarcasm intended on that last part there.

Unbelievable isn't it? They always pull that crap......like I'm supposed to even care.........or like I'm dumb enough to believe it. They never tell you about all the dealer incentives they get. They just love to show you that invoice number and sing the blues about how they won't be able to buy their kids school shoes after this deal. Personally, I hate the whole process. If it was up to me, I'd just buy directly from the manufacture if I could.

[Daseal]

I have a '97 Acura CL and I love it. I'm not going to argue foreign or domestic because honestly, I don't feel that it matters. I look at all the cars available to me in my price range and pick what I want. From what I've seen on a lot of similar American cars I don't like their look and how the interior is setup. That's not true for all American cars, but many.

I've had one problem with my car since I bought it (used) it has nearly 200K miles on it now, and I've had to replace the alternator.

My mother always had a Ford Explorer since right after they were released. She loved her first one which she drove into the ground over a 10-15 year period. So she decided to get another one, which has been nothing but constant trouble for her, she has since sworn off Ford and American cars in general.

I'm thrilled with the quality of my Acura, and my roommate loves his Saab. Toyota actually RAISED prices so that American companies could compete with them.

[MTK]

Man, cars are such a touchy subject with people.

I drive a Ford Focus. Why? Because my brother works at a Ford dealership and basically got me a deal that was insane... nearly 50% off the sticker price for a brand spanking new car.

Frankly I don't care much about what I drive, as long as it gets me from here to there, I'm good to go.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Man, cars are such a touchy subject with people.

I drive a Ford Focus. Why? Because my brother works at a Ford dealership and basically got me a deal that was insane... nearly 50% off the sticker price for a brand spanking new car.

Frankly I don't care much about what I drive, as long as it gets me from here to there, I'm good to go.

Unlike you, my "Ford Dealer Experience" was quite crappy. Right out of college I wanted to splash on a new car so I went to a Ford dealership to check out what they have...lo and behold this sales person was pushing me, a 6'5" two hundred and forty pounder, to buy a Ford Focus for 18K. I think, he thought I was restarted or something.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by saden1

Unlike you, my "Ford Dealer Experience" was quite crappy. Right out of college I wanted to splash on a new car so I went to a Ford dealership to check out what they have...lo and behold this sales person was pushing me, a 6'5" two hundred and forty pounder, to buy a Ford Focus for 18K. I think, he thought I was restarted or something.

LOL......you could always take out the front seat and sit in the back seat to drive it.