Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by jamf

And I think he got 1 win out of those TD drives.
Campbell missed too many throws, And most were easy ones to make.

Who cares about efficientcy? Campbell was under 50% on third down plays. That means no long drives without a 50+ yard play. Can we honestly rely on huge gains for scoring every game?

Who cares about Yard Per attempt? It proves that campbell dinks and dunks it as much as MB, And thats with the safeties playing deep!

Also,Brunell Didnt take many sacks. Actually he was sacked less than JC.
and no one throws the ball away on fourth down...

The only legitimate knock on Campbell so far is his completion percentage, which should get better with experience. The beloved Mark Brunell's completion percentage was a combined 51% in his first two seasons.

As far as sacks, yes Brunell had less, but that's because Brunell would throw the ball away as soon as a defender was within 3 yards of him. Campbell will stand in and take a shot if it means he has a chance to make a play.

Turnovers? Brunell, had four picks which is actually higher than I expected considering he never took chances. Campbell who made his professional debut this season had six. A few of them were bad reads but again, it's to be expected. Brunell put the ball on the ground five times and lost one. Campbell put the ball on the ground once and lost none.

I swear, it seems like some of you Brunell lovers didn't even watch the games, and are basing your entire argument on his numbers which are adequate at best. A quarterback who's only goal is not to lose his starting job is not the type of player I want leading my team.

[hesscl34]

Brunell will never be free of this bashing, it seems....

[12thMan]

I honestly don't know how anyone could hold up stats and say, "look, this proves Brunell played better". If that's the case, statiscally speaking, Mark Brunell is one of the better quarterbacks in the NFC.

The offense was clearly more dynamic with Campbell in the game. As has been stated repeatedly, defenses played and schemed differently with Campbell in the game. I also think the offensive line kicked up a couple of notches because they could breathe a little with JC in there.

South, you're correct about the sack total. It was a direct correlation to Brunell's unwillingness to stand in the pocket and take a hit.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

Brunell will never be free of this bashing, it seems....

I forgot, Brunell "bashing" is frowned upon in spite of the fact that he's probably seen his last starting gig, but bashing the current and future leader of the team, who has shown tremendous promise, is perfectly acceptable.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I honestly don't know how anyone could hold up stats and say, "look, this proves Brunell played better". If that's the case, statiscally speaking, Mark Brunell is one of the better quarterbacks in the NFC.

The offense was clearly more dynamic with Campbell in the game. As has been stated repeatedly, defenses played and schemed differently with Campbell in the game. I also think the offensive line kicked up a couple of notches because they could breathe a little with JC in there.

South, you're correct about the sack total. It was a direct correlation to Brunell's unwillingness to stand in the pocket and take a hit.

Ok, but how much of it was just a matter of the offense as a whole getting more comfortable? I mean in the second half of the season there was a heavier dose of "Gibbs football" right? And that's what most of these players know from the past couple of years.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Ok, but how much of it was just a matter of the offense as a whole getting more comfortable? I mean in the second half of the season there was a heavier dose of "Gibbs football" right? And that's what most of these players know from the past couple of years.

Oh I definitely think there was some of that too. But I also think, Jason's intangibles helped bridge that transition.

[freddyg12]

so many things to say I don't know where to start. I'll try:
1) see Matty's earlier post about medicine not being an exact science. someone can be "sore" not knowing they may have a serious injury
2) MB won his job, and Gibbs started him until we got to 6 losses (according to the washpost). You can't blame him for that given the expectations of the team.
3) JC is far better than MB at this point & we should all be happy for that.
4) I really hope MB retires. He can help us on the sideline, but do you really want him in a game given what he's been through & what we've seen? I don't question his integrity, but I think he plays w/more caution than passion at this point of his career.
5) I've said this before, we need to get a young qb, either in the draft late, or undrafted, or sign a fa to a reasonable deal. We need to groom a backup, MB & TC are both too old.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

The only legitimate knock on Campbell so far is his completion percentage, which should get better with experience. The beloved Mark Brunell's completion percentage was a combined 51% in his first two seasons.

As far as sacks, yes Brunell had less, but that's because Brunell would throw the ball away as soon as a defender was within 3 yards of him. Campbell will stand in and take a shot if it means he has a chance to make a play.

Turnovers? Brunell, had four picks which is actually higher than I expected considering he never took chances. Campbell who made his professional debut this season had six. A few of them were bad reads but again, it's to be expected. Brunell put the ball on the ground five times and lost one. Campbell put the ball on the ground once and lost none.

I swear, it seems like some of you Brunell lovers didn't even watch the games, and are basing your entire argument on his numbers which are adequate at best. A quarterback who's only goal is not to lose his starting job is not the type of player I want leading my team.

I really don't think you should be questioning whether anyone who has anything positive to say about MB's on field performance watched the games. It makes it seem personal. Plus, you know as well as I do that everyone on this fourm watches the games when they can.

I absolutely agree that Campbell's completion percentage will increase with more expierience. The reason why it will increase is because he will begin to do some of the things that Brunell, a seasoned vet, was doing this year. When he takes the underneath guy as it's given to him, he will complete a higher percentage. By completing a higher percentage, he will also complete more yards/attempt, which makes sense, because the goal of passing is to get as many yards as you can on a per pass basis. Higher YPA=good passer, lower YPA=poor passer. Yeah, thats oversimplifing...a lot, but if a guy throws for over a yard more per pass in the exact same system as another, there is little question of who played better.

We can go over all day about how Brunell got his yards by throwing underneath and having the recievers get YAC, but Campbell had the same luxury. It was the same offensive system.

At some point very early next season (a few games in), I would expect Campbell to improve to a level beyond where Mark Brunell's steady play is right now. But we shouldn't be crucifing Gibbs for any decision made with the QBs this year.

It's a good thing JC got some playing time this year, because it puts our offense in great position for next year, but we might have sacrificed a ballgame or two in doing so. Campbell's two best games came in losses.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by jamf

I'm tired of the brunell bashing.
He ran the team the way JG wanted him to. He did an OK job with the way the other 10 guys played.
MB had to deal with all the bullshit from Gibbs/Saunders, WR Corp, Crappy Line Play, and Defence getting blown out.

MB had a higher Yards Per attempt Average and More plays over than 20 yards( Ave per game) than JC.

I'm glad the switch to JC was made. Now we can move on to a new era. But, MB played better than JC. JC didn't throw downfield either, he dumped off to Cooley and still missed those throws!

Brunell is a class act and a Business man. He is not going to step away from gauranteed money. No one would. I don't want to hear people say he should restructor and retire. The team screwed up and signed him to a large contract. Mark did his part, Now the team has to live up to it. I'm tired of players holding out and I'm tired of fans expecting players to give back money when they can no longer play just because its right for the team.

Here is another potential problem: If we cut him, will we have to pay extra for an injury settlement? He was hurt in a game...

It's time to redirect the blame from Brunell to the front office.

Is this post a joke? Seriously...

Crappy line play? Statistically they were one of the top lines in the league.

Brunell played better than Campbell? JC didn't throw downfield? He threw more bombs in one half than Brunell did all year.

Seriously, I will give you $300 for an ounce of what you are smoking.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

Brunell will never be free of this bashing, it seems....

Brunell shouldn't be bashed. He was hurt. The idiots that kept starting him when they knew he was hurt should be bashed.

This isn't the first time by the way. It was acknowledged that Brunell should have been benched and allowed to heal after he hurt his hamstring in '04.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

Is this post a joke? Seriously...

Crappy line play? Statistically they were one of the top lines in the league.

Brunell played better than Campbell? JC didn't throw downfield? He threw more bombs in one half than Brunell did all year.

Seriously, I will give you $300 for an ounce of what you are smoking.

No it's not a joke.

Brunell Completed more passes for 20+ yards(by almost double). They both Dink and Dunked all day.
Brunell throw for more yard per game than campbell with less interceptions.

I will agree that the safeties backed off when JC came in, Which created room for Betts. But on 3rd downs, JC had a 71 QB rating while MB had a 90. He couldnt make plays.

Joe Gibbs wanted a QB who could manage the game and hope the gamebreakers made enough plays to put of points. In that type of system, MB was the better QB.

With that said, It's time to move on. I hope JC is the next Tom Brady or Montana. All of his flaws can be fixed with a good QB coach.
Btw, I think we need a real QB coach not lazor. I guess I will bring this up in another thread.

[MTK]

Crappy line play?

Sorry but that's just so off base it's not even funny.

Our line was the only one in the league to be in the top 7 for sacks allowed and rushing yards.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Crappy line play?

Sorry but that's just so off base it's not even funny.

Our line was the only one in the league to be in the top 7 for sacks allowed and rushing yards.

Well, early on, we were getting a lot of pressure on our QB and there were no holes in the running game. Obviously, having Christian Fauria on the field isn't going to help with the opening of any holes, but the O-Line shoulders at least some of the blame for some early season blocking woes.

I'll agree that those things are a thing of the past. The last 6 games we had huge gaping holes to run through and adequate to good pass protection. Still, we had a few rough showings in September and October from the guys up front.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, early on, we were getting a lot of pressure on our QB and there were no holes in the running game. Obviously, having Christian Fauria on the field isn't going to help with the opening of any holes, but the O-Line shoulders at least some of the blame for some early season blocking woes.

I'll agree that those things are a thing of the past. The last 6 games we had huge gaping holes to run through and adequate to good pass protection. Still, we had a few rough showings in September and October from the guys up front.

I will at least grant you that, the dallas, NYG, & Tenn. games early on were pretty bad. Also the colts game. Those were the games when the whole team sucked.
By the end of the year though, you have to say our O line stepped up more than any other unit (except maybe punt coverage due to AA's stellar play!).