An Inconvenient Truth

[FRPLG]

This the little thread that could. Almost aweek and only 72 replies but constantly on the front page.

[Hog1]

Sooooooooo, who's at fault? We live in a country that has a health care crises. I pay $987 p/mo for my family for ...................ok coverage. A REAL KILLER.
Millions of American's go without. They become a burden for the system because they don't pay for the services they recieve. The hospitals close as a result of constant red lining? I assume the doc's have to become more creative to realize the same profits as were seen a few years ago (see more patients, with decrease in quality of care per each).

And yes Matty, the only one I can see actually benefiting in all this is the Big Bad Insurance companies. They just pass along the bad news to the insured, in ever-increasing premiums?

REALISTIC solution is?????????

Yes, Interesting thread

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Sooooooooo, who's at fault? We live in a country that has a health care crises. I pay $987 p/mo for my family for ...................ok coverage. A REAL KILLER.
Millions of American's go without. They become a burden for the system because they don't pay for the services they recieve. The hospitals close as a result of constant red lining? I assume the doc's have to become more creative to realize the same profits as were seen a few years ago (see more patients, with decrease in quality of care per each).

And yes Matty, the only one I can see actually benefiting in all this is the Big Bad Insurance companies. They just pass along the bad news to the insured, in ever-increasing premiums?

REALISTIC solution is?????????

Yes, Interesting thread

Schneed is right, blame the system, not the players involved.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Sooooooooo, who's at fault? We live in a country that has a health care crises. I pay $987 p/mo for my family for ...................ok coverage. A REAL KILLER.
Millions of American's go without. They become a burden for the system because they don't pay for the services they recieve. The hospitals close as a result of constant red lining? I assume the doc's have to become more creative to realize the same profits as were seen a few years ago (see more patients, with decrease in quality of care per each).

And yes Matty, the only one I can see actually benefiting in all this is the Big Bad Insurance companies. They just pass along the bad news to the insured, in ever-increasing premiums?

REALISTIC solution is?????????

Yes, Interesting thread

That seems real high too me. I'm self emp. and for my family of 4 it runs right around 525.00 through Anthen. Thats even with a daughter who rang up around 75,000 to 100,000 gand in med bills 2 years ago. She is just fine now but I thought my ins. was going to jump up in price it did some and we switched to our current carrier. Maybe its time you shop your coverage.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

That seems real high too me. I'm self emp. and for my family of 4 it runs right around 525.00 through Anthen. Thats even with a daughter who rang up around 75,000 to 100,000 gand in med bills 2 years ago. She is just fine now but I thought my ins. was going to jump up in price it did some and we switched to our current carrier. Maybe its time you shop your coverage.

I agree, who are you with?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I agree, who are you with?

I'm with Anthem but what you need is a person who only writes health ins. and let them shop prices for you. The lady I use will contact us about 1 month or so before renewal and lets us know of any changes and we can decide which policy & coverages are best for us.

[FRPLG]

The problem we have in this country when it comes to healthcare is a desire to have the benfits of a market efficient system, but only if doesn't cost too much or deny care.

In an efficient market products and services are paid for by customers at a price they are willing to pay. If soemthing becomes too expensive then eventually some other guy or girl comes along and offers the same service for less. Thus balancing out the market.

The healthcare system doesn't work well in this way since there are so many barriers to entry and nobody wants to see other suffer because of market economics.

The problem is that as soon as we make it less market effiicient that motivation for smart people and innovative companies to get involved, the ones who would provide the best care and medicine, becomes too low.

It is a hard question.

I am wondering if maybe as a society we need to adjust our views and desires for the healthcare system since there in't a system that will meet all of our needs. There just isn't.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The problem we have in this country when it comes to healthcare is a desire to have the benfits of a market efficient system, but only if doesn't cost too much or deny care.

In an efficient market products and services are paid for by customers at a price they are willing to pay. If soemthing becomes too expensive then eventually some other guy or girl comes along and offers the same service for less. Thus balancing out the market.

The healthcare system doesn't work well in this way since there are so many barriers to entry and nobody wants to see other suffer because of market economics.

The problem is that as soon as we make it less market effiicient that motivation for smart people and innovative companies to get involved, the ones who would provide the best care and medicine, becomes too low.

It is a hard question.

I am wondering if maybe as a society we need to adjust our views and desires for the healthcare system since there in't a system that will meet all of our needs. There just isn't.

Good point on the market efficiency. If you're talking about cars or widgets or whatever, there comes a price point where the customer says you know what, that's way too high, I ain't payin it.

Trouble is nobody is going to do that with healthcare. If your father or mother or daughter or son needed surgery in a life or death situation, there's no price too high. You'd never reach a point where you'd say you know what, it's just not worth it, just euthanize my father.

That's where the adjustment in attitude is needed. People have to accept that healthcare is EXTREMELY expensive. We can argue how it should be paid for. Perhaps the government should run hospitals, but they'd have to jack taxes way up to pay for it. No matter how you cut it, that technology is damn expensive.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Good point on the market efficiency. If you're talking about cars or widgets or whatever, there comes a price point where the customer says you know what, that's way too high, I ain't payin it.

Trouble is nobody is going to do that with healthcare. If your father or mother or daughter or son needed surgery in a life or death situation, there's no price too high. You'd never reach a point where you'd say you know what, it's just not worth it, just euthanize my father.

That's where the adjustment in attitude is needed. People have to accept that healthcare is EXTREMELY expensive. We can argue how it should be paid for. Perhaps the government should run hospitals, but they'd have to jack taxes way up to pay for it. No matter how you cut it, that technology is damn expensive.

Yup.

That's what I mean by changing our views. Do we as a society want the best healthcare for everyone or are we going to accept that that probably isn't a realistic idea?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Trouble is nobody is going to do that with healthcare. If your father or mother or daughter or son needed surgery in a life or death situation, there's no price too high. You'd never reach a point where you'd say you know what, it's just not worth it, just euthanize my father.

that does happen in england in some cases.

i mean, yeah it's cruel, but if someone requires $200k-$1mill a day in care with a 5% of ever recovering (brain damage, full body paralysis, etc)...

[Hog1]

Actually, I'm not blaming anyone. I simply pointed out that the insurance companies (at least initially) don't appear to be hurting from any of this. Do they not pass along their costs, and or losses to the insured?

The "technology" may be expensive, but it's far more complex than that. The Doc's to want to continue to nail down the large incomes that they spent 500k in med school to get. With the cost of their insurances being ridiculously high, they have to create more income. They see more patients with less quality for the patient. They're scared to death of getting sued, so to cover their own ass, they prescribe needless treatments (like the catch all, CAT scan) to accomplish that end, and prove they have left nothing to chance. Unfortunately, our court system has handed down ABSURD judgements in all things health related to help feed the monster, and make it attractive to continue to bring these types of lawsuits

Yes, it is a complex problem

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Actually, I'm not blaming anyone. I simply pointed out that the insurance companies (at least initially) don't appear to be hurting from any of this. Do they not pass along their costs, and or losses to the insured?

A lot of the costs they have to pass on is due to insurance fraud which is a bigger problem that most people realize.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

A lot of the costs they have to pass on is due to insurance fraud which is a bigger problem that most people realize.

It IS a complex issue.
It is one of the MOST F..... up things in this country today. If it can be fixed, there is fault somewhere and needs to be addressed. As it is, it is a mess. Millions of Americans do without. If it can't be fixed, let's start over. Now, back to my original premise..............

REALISTIC solution is??????????

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It IS a complex issue.
It is one of the MOST F..... up things in this country today. If it can be fixed, there is fault somewhere and needs to be addressed. As it is, it is a mess. Millions of Americans do without. If it can't be fixed, let's start over. Now, back to my original premise..............

REALISTIC solution is??????????

I honestly don't think there is a realistic solution that can satisfy all the needs and wants of society. An adjustment of expectations is what is needed as well as changes to mee the more realistic wants.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I honestly don't think there is a realistic solution that can satisfy all the needs and wants of society. An adjustment of expectations is what is needed as well as changes to mee the more realistic wants.

Adjusment of expectations=somebody's gettin' screwed