The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm not quite sure where you're going with your post. But I just feel the need to say I'm definitely not arguing that we should get rid of Brunell yet. He's still serviceable as a backup, but I wouldn't want him starting.

Honestly, a lot of this discussion is neither here nor there. My basic feeling is whoever the coaches want to be the backup QBs, fine with me, as long as it makes salary cap sense. It'd be completely stupid to break the bank for a 3rd QB this year, that's the main reason I'm advocating keeping Collins.

I think we'd all agree that we're hitching our hopes to the wagon of Jason Campbell this year, as well we should. He has by far the most talent on our team (and way more talent than Tim Rattay), and he gives us the best chance to win games at this point.

Backup QBs can be left to the coaching staff and whoever they pick, hey whatever. As long as you're not getting us into cap trouble by signing backup QBs, knock yourself out.

Well, any move that isn't cost effective is stupid. The point is that backup QB is going to be a need next year anyhow, why not address it now while it is cheap to do so.

I could see us screwing up by not looking into the future to find our needs. Backup QB will be a need in a year. As far as this year goes, it really doesn't matter. Campbell is No. 1, Brunell is No. 2 and we have a really good QB situation. The main focus now should be adding youth to the defense via the draft.

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm not quite sure where you're going with your post. But I just feel the need to say I'm definitely not arguing that we should get rid of Brunell yet. He's still serviceable as a backup, but I wouldn't want him starting.

Honestly, a lot of this discussion is neither here nor there. My basic feeling is whoever the coaches want to be the backup QBs, fine with me, as long as it makes salary cap sense. It'd be completely stupid to break the bank for a 3rd QB this year, that's the main reason I'm advocating keeping Collins.

I think we'd all agree that we're hitching our hopes to the wagon of Jason Campbell this year, as well we should. He has by far the most talent on our team (and way more talent than Tim Rattay), and he gives us the best chance to win games at this point.

Backup QBs can be left to the coaching staff and whoever they pick, hey whatever. As long as you're not getting us into cap trouble by signing backup QBs, knock yourself out.

Let's say a 290lb DE falls on JC's ankle during a pre season game. He's out 6 weeks. Who starts? Brunell. But you just said you don't want him starting and neither does 99% of all the Redskins fans. This is why we need to bring in someone else to compete with Collins. We know if Brunell has to start for 3-6 weeks then we are in trouble. But the only guy I see doing this is Casey Bramlet. He's going back to NFL Europe so who knows. Bring on Casey! He could be the next Jack Delhomme or Kurt Warner.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Let's say a 290lb DE falls on JC's ankle during a pre season game. He's out 6 weeks. Who starts? Brunell. But you just said you don't want him starting and neither does 99% of all the Redskins fans. This is why we need to bring in someone else to compete with Collins. We know if Brunell has to start for 3-6 weeks then we are in trouble. But the only guy I see doing this is Casey Bramlet. He's going back to NFL Europe so who knows. Bring on Casey! He could be the next Jack Delhomme or Kurt Warner.

Wrong. If you are looking for Casey Bramlet to outperform Mark Brunell....I, I can't even finish this sentence. The 3-6 week injury is a perfect situation for a guy like Brunell to start in. Like, I don't think I could have dreamed up a more benefical situation for MB's career. Watch the highlight reels.

There is nothing about Bramlet...at all.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Schneed,

Thanks for correcting my numbers re: Carr's contract. I guess I didn't realize he got that much.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Carr signed for 2 years, $6.2 million.

ESPN.com - NFL - Carr agrees with Panthers, will back up Delhomme

If Rattay got Carr money, we would cut Collins to save $1.2 million, but then eat up about $2.5 - $3.1 million in room, for a net hit to our cap of somewhere between $1.3 - $1.9 million. That would leave us with about $3.0 million in space, barely enough to sign rookies, and if we can manage to get the rookies squeezed in there, we'd have no wiggle room during the season. And you could forget about having the flexibility to trade for an Asante Samuel or Lance Briggs before the draft (maybe that's a good thing, I don't know).

Rattay may not get Carr money, but not too far below it. In any case, signing him would make our 2007 cap situation VERY tight. We could ditch Renaldo Wynn to help make room, but have you made your team any better by going from Collins to Rattay and dropping Wynn in the process?

You need to leave a little room for signing guys in season.

I would pay him reasonable No. 2 money. That's more than Collins is making, but you save 1.2 mil by cutting Collins. I would give Rattay 3 years with a 3.5 million signing bonus, vet min base salary this year, one million base sal next year, and 1.2 million in 2009.

That gives him a cap number under 2 million for this season. We are saving 1.2 million already on cutting Collins, so the net cap cost against this years cap would be somewhere between 0.5 million and 0.8 million. More than reasonable to cheaply lock up the backup QB situation for the next 3 years.

[hooskins]

Look this would not workout because Al wont be able to get his reach arounds around from Todd anymore. Why do you think Brunell gets so much love from Gibbs? He gives too...

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Let's say a 290lb DE falls on JC's ankle during a pre season game. He's out 6 weeks. Who starts? Brunell. But you just said you don't want him starting and neither does 99% of all the Redskins fans. This is why we need to bring in someone else to compete with Collins. We know if Brunell has to start for 3-6 weeks then we are in trouble. But the only guy I see doing this is Casey Bramlet. He's going back to NFL Europe so who knows. Bring on Casey! He could be the next Jack Delhomme or Kurt Warner.

In this scenario Brunell is still the backup QB because after the 3-6 weeks Campbell takes back his starting job.

[tazhog]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I've always liked Tim Rattay and thought he'd be a very good #2 QB and an outstanding #3. My guess is that he could be had for little more than the vet. minimum considering he's drawn so little interest.

I thought he'd be a difference maker in Tampa... I didn't even realize Rattay was available (this site is awesome)!
I agree! Sign Rattay for vet min...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

In this scenario Brunell is still the backup QB because after the 3-6 weeks Campbell takes back his starting job.

Exactly.

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Garcia and Brunell really aren't all that different at all. Garcia probably benefited a bit from not playing the first half of the year, but what he did wasn't incredibly impressive. He was just a good QB playing out the twighlight of his career for a good team, and was able to get some wins along the way over some bad opponents. Garcia played well in the exact same way that Brunell played well. High completion, low INT, let the running game carry the offense.

A competition between Collins and Brunell wouldn't be worth having. Rattay and Brunell would be a very interesting duel.

Huh????????????? Bad opponents??? You call Carolina, Dall, Atl and the Giants weak? Eagles won 6 straight and three straight on the road in the NFC East, plus a playoffs game. Sorry but in today's NFL that's pretty damn impressive to me. If I recall we did the same thing in 05 and you would have thought we won the SB. Give Garcia some credit. He's not McNabb but he's still an effective back-up and I'd love to have him on our team backing up Jason C.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Huh????????????? Bad opponents??? You call Carolina, Dall, Atl and the Giants weak? Eagles won 6 straight and three straight on the road in the NFC East, plus a playoffs game. Sorry but in today's NFL that's pretty damn impressive to me. If I recall we did the same thing in 05 and you would have thought we won the SB. Give Garcia some credit. He's not McNabb but he's still an effective back-up and I'd love to have him on our team backing up Jason C.

I dont think anyone is denying him credit, but what people are trying to say is that he did not perform at an extraordinary level. He is a decent QB that was on a good team at a good time.

It wasnt like he was passing 300 yards a game and 3 Tds. Most of his stuff was short passes.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Huh????????????? Bad opponents??? You call Carolina, Dall, Atl and the Giants weak? Eagles won 6 straight and three straight on the road in the NFC East, plus a playoffs game. Sorry but in today's NFL that's pretty damn impressive to me. If I recall we did the same thing in 05 and you would have thought we won the SB. Give Garcia some credit. He's not McNabb but he's still an effective back-up and I'd love to have him on our team backing up Jason C.

Yes, those teams are weak, particuarly defensively. The toughest game they got during that 5 game streak was Washington.

Three straight road wins in the division is impressive anyway you split it, but the Eagles are a good team. Jeff Garcia played well, and that's his job.

I'd love to have Garcia backing up Campbell too. Unfortunately we already have left handed Garcia backing up Campbell, and we hate him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I dont think anyone is denying him credit, but what people are trying to say is that he did not perform at an extraordinary level. He is a decent QB that was on a good team at a good time.

It wasnt like he was passing 300 yards a game and 3 Tds. Most of his stuff was short passes.

Exactly. This is exactly what Brunell was doing on a team that wasn't anywhere as good as Philly.

[hooskins]

Ok I kinda hopped onto this thread a bit late, but why would this happen seeing that Todd is Al's boy? He brought him here from KC and he knows the "system" so why would Al even let this happen. I was joking about the whole reach around thing but I think Al would fight hard against this.

Could anyone summarize how this could happen without removing/seriously upsetting Al?

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

In this scenario Brunell is still the backup QB because after the 3-6 weeks Campbell takes back his starting job.

Yes I realize that. But what happens if Brunell has to start for lets say 5 weeks. Can we win with him as our QB? Will our passing game be at an NFL level? I doubt it. Our defense would have to go back to 04-05 form and carry the team.