The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I honestly can't see Rattay getting a better deal than Carr received ($2M per year), which is only slightly more than what Collins is getting. I could be wrong, but I think Rattay will probably get something very close to what Collins got ($1.5M per year), which is what $600K above vet. minimum?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I honestly can't see Rattay getting a better deal than Carr received ($2M per year), which is only slightly more than what Collins is getting. I could be wrong, but I think Rattay will probably get something very close to what Collins got ($1.5M per year), which is what $600K above vet. minimum?

Carr signed for 2 years, $6.2 million.

ESPN.com - NFL - Carr agrees with Panthers, will back up Delhomme

If Rattay got Carr money, we would cut Collins to save $1.2 million, but then eat up about $2.5 - $3.1 million in room, for a net hit to our cap of somewhere between $1.3 - $1.9 million. That would leave us with about $3.0 million in space, barely enough to sign rookies, and if we can manage to get the rookies squeezed in there, we'd have no wiggle room during the season. And you could forget about having the flexibility to trade for an Asante Samuel or Lance Briggs before the draft (maybe that's a good thing, I don't know).

Rattay may not get Carr money, but not too far below it. In any case, signing him would make our 2007 cap situation VERY tight. We could ditch Renaldo Wynn to help make room, but have you made your team any better by going from Collins to Rattay and dropping Wynn in the process?

You need to leave a little room for signing guys in season.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Carr signed for 2 years, $6.2 million.

ESPN.com - NFL - Carr agrees with Panthers, will back up Delhomme

If Rattay got Carr money, we would cut Collins to save $1.2 million, but then eat up about $2.5 - $3.1 million in room, for a net hit to our cap of somewhere between $1.3 - $1.9 million. That would leave us with about $3.0 million in space, barely enough to sign rookies, and if we can manage to get the rookies squeezed in there, we'd have no wiggle room during the season. And you could forget about having the flexibility to trade for an Asante Samuel or Lance Briggs before the draft (maybe that's a good thing, I don't know).

Rattay may not get Carr money, but not too far below it. In any case, signing him would make our 2007 cap situation VERY tight. We could ditch Renaldo Wynn to help make room, but have you made your team any better by going from Collins to Rattay and dropping Wynn in the process?

You need to leave a little room for signing guys in season.

I would pay him reasonable No. 2 money. That's more than Collins is making, but you save 1.2 mil by cutting Collins. I would give Rattay 3 years with a 3.5 million signing bonus, vet min base salary this year, one million base sal next year, and 1.2 million in 2009.

That gives him a cap number under 2 million for this season. We are saving 1.2 million already on cutting Collins, so the net cap cost against this years cap would be somewhere between 0.5 million and 0.8 million. More than reasonable to cheaply lock up the backup QB situation for the next 3 years.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Schneed,

Thanks for correcting my numbers re: Carr's contract. I guess I didn't realize he got that much.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Schneed,

Thanks for correcting my numbers re: Carr's contract. I guess I didn't realize he got that much.

No prob, with the flurry of signings that goes on this time of year the numbers can get all jumbled around.

But GTripp, can you explain to me why signing a guy of Tim Rattay's quality will be more expensive next year than he would be right now?

He's a mediocre-at-best QB that's been ditched by two teams now. Carr got $3 million a year. If Rattay is worth $2.5 million a year now (which we can't afford in 07 by the way), then why would a guy like him be worth anything more than $2.8 or so next year?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

But GTripp, can you explain to me why signing a guy of Tim Rattay's quality will be more expensive next year than he would be right now?

He's a mediocre-at-best QB that's been ditched by two teams now. Carr got $3 million a year. If Rattay is worth $2.5 million a year now (which we can't afford in 07 by the way), then why would a guy like him be worth anything more than $2.8 or so next year?

I think we know enough about Rattay as a player to pinpoint his career path. He's right in the prime of his career right now, and should he get a chance to start down the stretch, is good enough to put together a solid career. He's one of the 32 best QBs in this league.

Any player who fits all that criteria next year will certainly be a hot commodity. It's a complete fluke that with all those teams that have crappy QBs, Tim Rattay is not a hot commodity.

This is a rare, sizable market deficency and we would be wise to exploit it while the oppertunity is still available.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Terry Bradshaw has been very critical of NFL FO's recently because Tim Rattay is still on the market. After Jeff Garcia got signed, no QB on the market had a better year than Rattay did. Yet, he still sits cheap and unsigned on the open market.

It's hardly what I would consider a "critical move", but we should cut Todd Collins to make room for Rattay. Thinking toward the future, Brunell isn't going to be here in 2008. Neither will Collins. If we wait until next year to fill the very important role of backup QB, we are going to have to pay a premium on whoever we want to be our backup.

By signing Tim Rattay to a 3-4 year deal tomorrow and installing him as the third QB, we can get a cheap backup QB and avoid having to outbid someone on the market next year for a QB who we wouldn't be afraid to play. Collins is nothing more than a roster filler with ties to Saunders as is. Rattay SHOULD be a starting QB in this league.

As for next year, we would have 3 guys on the roster who would (should) all be starting for the Falcons. At the very least, given two preseasons, Rattay should be able to play at a moments notice at the top of his game.

Sign this guy! Cut Collins!

I agree with you on this one G, I believe we should cut Brunell as well, we have to move on and look to the future, why we hang onto a QB who we know can't get the job done in Brunell is beyond me. A backup is a guy who you hope has what it takes to become a starter and can possibly lead a team for a season if your starter goes down, we don't have that right now, it's time to cut the cord with these guys and press on!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by offiss

I agree with you on this one G, I believe we should cut Brunell as well, we have to move on and look to the future, why we hang onto a QB who we know can't get the job done in Brunell is beyond me. A backup is a guy who you hope has what it takes to become a starter and can possibly lead a team for a season if your starter goes down, we don't have that right now, it's time to cut the cord with these guys and press on!

I agree. It's time to turn the page on Brunell. Rattay would fit in well here and I would have Collins and Rattay battle for #2. It's makes no sense to hold on to Brunell at this point.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I agree. It's time to turn the page on Brunell. Rattay would fit in well here and I would have Collins and Rattay battle for #2. It's makes no sense to hold on to Brunell at this point.

It also makes sense to have Collins here to help teach a younger guy the offense. Having 2 old backups who should both be gone next year doesn't seems smart.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

It also makes sense to have Collins here to help teach a younger guy the offense. Having 2 old backups who should both be gone next year doesn't seems smart.

Collins does not have any mileage on him since he has never played. So I'm not sure why he would be gone after next year. Unless he just can't play at all. But the coaches see him up close so they must see something in the guy. I like the move Carolina made. And also Atl. signing Harrington. We need a younger guy with some playing experience.

[Beemnseven]

I don't see what would be so catastrophic about bringing in Rattay, providing he doesn't break the cap bank.

In fact, his on-the-field experience in regular season play compared to Todd Collins' time might make up for his lack of understanding of what is apparently The World's Most Sophisticated Offense.

I would also agree that the overall athletic advantages Rattay has over Collins might make it a wise move for the future. But then, that's exactly the kind of forsight the front office isn't really known for.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I agree. It's time to turn the page on Brunell. Rattay would fit in well here and I would have Collins and Rattay battle for #2. It's makes no sense to hold on to Brunell at this point.

It makes a lot less sense, economically and talent wise, to hold on to Collins.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

I agree with you on this one G, I believe we should cut Brunell as well, we have to move on and look to the future, why we hang onto a QB who we know can't get the job done in Brunell is beyond me. A backup is a guy who you hope has what it takes to become a starter and can possibly lead a team for a season if your starter goes down, we don't have that right now, it's time to cut the cord with these guys and press on!

Well, having Rattay would eliminate the absolute necessity for having Brunell around, but even still, Brunell's contract makes him idiotic for us to dump him now. He's probably the best backup option in the league, assuming that Garcia wins the starter role in Tampa. Teams like Minnesota, Atlanta, and Oakland would be much better off with a guy like Brunell in there. So this notion that he can't play is coming from some pretty spoiled fans, IMO. Admittedly, he's going to continue to be in ever so slight decline each year for the rest of his career, so we even restructured his deal to automatically void after this year. Brunell's future has already been decided.

[SmootSmack]

If he became available, what do you all think about Charlie Frye as a young backup? He's taken a beating in Cleveland, but under the right tutelage he might be ok.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he became available, what do you all think about Charlie Frye as a young backup? He's taken a beating in Cleveland, but under the right tutelage he might be ok.

No thanks. I don't think he has a strong enoough arm nor is he a very accurate passer.