SGG's What's Your Issue Poll

[Daseal]

Schneed: You going to pay extra taxes to foot the bill for that uninsured teenage mother to have the surgery? More people only adds to poverty in this country. I'd rather see more kids who can live in sanitary conditions, get an education, and not spend their time running the streets then tons of children everywhere adding to poverty and crime levels.

If you say you'll accept paying taxes to cover the millions of abortions per year, that's one thing. If not, I don't see where you can talk.

[FRPLG]

Schneed's hitting the right notes for me.

My problem is that I cannot morally distinguish when a fertilized egg becomes a human. Where is that line? Why does that line exist? It would seem to me that any type of defined developmental line of human existence would be completely arbitrary and therefore we as humans shouldn't be making it. The easiest and most logical place to define life as starting is at conception. That is when two things that are nothing in the world, an egg and a sperm, come together to create something that IS something in the world. An organism that can grow to think, breath, love, hate, whatever...

And to me, taking from that organism, that life, the opportunity to exist and flourish is unconscionably wrong.

What drives me nuts about the right is the belief by many that abortion is wrong while supporting the death penalty. To me there is no difference. Humans are choosing to take a life and they have no right to. Humans should not be taking the lives of other humans for any reason.

[FRPLG]

If this is inflammatory I apologize in adavance. It is not meant to attack. It may be insulting but I really think it needs to be said.

If anyone's support for the right of women to have abortions centers around some type of economic reason or any other practical reasoning like poverty levels and so forth then I think you need to really do some soul searching. It is no different than saying, "Well we have too many miserable kids in foster care so let's just put them out of their misery." or "We have too many people already. Might as well put a quota on couples and then kill of any extra kids they have".

I know that is not what anyone is meaning to to say but it IS what you are basically saying. You are saying that the needs of our econmoy and community are greater than one person's right to live and breathe. You are saying that it is better to deny someone's life rather than let them grow up in poverty. Why do you get to decide that? If that is the way you feel then well... I don't know. But if you feel like people have the right to live and have a chance then you should really re-evaluate your thoughts as to why you support abortion. A woman's right to her body is a much better argument to me. And one hard to argue against.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Schneed: You going to pay extra taxes to foot the bill for that uninsured teenage mother to have the surgery? More people only adds to poverty in this country. I'd rather see more kids who can live in sanitary conditions, get an education, and not spend their time running the streets then tons of children everywhere adding to poverty and crime levels.

If you say you'll accept paying taxes to cover the millions of abortions per year, that's one thing. If not, I don't see where you can talk.

Your attitude is part of the problem, you're assuming that the babies that would be born would be complete drains on society. Many would be, because the abortion rate in impoverished areas is high and many would grow up with poor parental influence. But many others could make something of themselves. You seem to be writing off anyone from the inner city impoverished areas as having any kind of chance in life. You're way out of line to assume that they can't make something of themselves.

I'd be perfectly fine seeing 99 kids become complete dregs on society if it meant that one could grow up and become a contributing member. Robbing them of the chance to become something is wrong, and precludes them to a life of failure.

And yes, I'd gladly support the "dregs" with increased welfare taxes. Some issues are more important than money, and denying someone the right to a happy life is more important than an extra hundred or two bucks in my pocket each year.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

If this is inflammatory I apologize in adavance. It is not meant to attack. It may be insulting but I really think it needs to be said.

If anyone's support for the right of women to have abortions centers around some type of economic reason or any other practical reasoning like poverty levels and so forth then I think you need to really do some soul searching. It is no different than saying, "Well we have too many miserable kids in foster care so let's just put them out of their misery." or "We have too many people already. Might as well put a quota on couples and then kill of any extra kids they have".

I know that is not what anyone is meaning to to say but it IS what you are basically saying. You are saying that the needs of our econmoy and community are greater than one person's right to live and breathe. You are saying that it is better to deny someone's life rather than let them grow up in poverty. Why do you get to decide that? If that is the way you feel then well... I don't know. But if you feel like people have the right to live and have a chance then you should really re-evaluate your thoughts as to why you support abortion. A woman's right to her body is a much better argument to me. And one hard to argue against.

I'm 100% behind you, I'm a little appalled by Daseal's assertion.

Though I gotta say, I'll gladly argue against the woman's right to her body argument.

[Schneed10]

Because Daseal, it certainly sounds like you're making judgments on who deserves to live and who doesn't.

[SmootSmack]

Schneed, it's interesting that you spoke about how being a parent has influenced your views on abortion, but what about education?

To me, that's a huge issue. And all I have is a 9 month old niece. But with it being a more competitive marketplace globally I want her to be in the best position to succeed.

I'm curious to know how parents here feel about education as an issue.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Because Daseal, it certainly sounds like you're making judgments on who deserves to live and who doesn't.

Only the mods decide that around here.

Daseal, you get 3 months. Use that time to read "Are You There God? It's Me Margaret"

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Though I gotta say, I'll gladly argue against the woman's right to her body argument.

Oh I would too but you have to admit that that argument is a much stronger one and requires a lot more subjectivness than obectiveness. To me a person has a right to a life of freedom. That includes freedom from being killed. At the same time a pregnant woman has the same right to freedom. So here there has to be a judgement based decision. I fall on the side of the baby's life but can see much more clearly the opposing arguments.

[Schneed10]

Not to change the subject, but I will argue in favor of capital punishment. In that case, humans are killing someone (a criminal) who made a conscious choice to rob another person of their rights to live. I support capital punishment for anyone who committs murder intentionally, that's the only crime. It's just. The criminal made a conscious choice to take away another person's freedom to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. He deserves his fate, there's no moral conundrum there.

With abortion, we're robbing that baby of the freedom to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness before that person is even able to exercise one choice.

As humans, we have an obligation to protect life. If someone chooses to consciously and knowingly take away someone else's freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then they have thereby waived their right to the very same. They deserve their fate.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Schneed, it's interesting that you spoke about how being a parent has influenced your views on abortion, but what about education?

To me, that's a huge issue. And all I have is a 9 month old niece. But with it being a more competitive marketplace globally I want her to be in the best position to succeed.

I'm curious to know how parents here feel about education as an issue.

To me education is a definitely an issue but mostly as an economic one. Economic from the stand point of how much of my money is being wasted on our crappy system. This is because I know that my child's ultimate education is going to be my responsibilty. I know she will be educated well because I will personally ensure it. I don't much worry about the state of our education system as it pertains to my daughter for that reason.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Not to change the subject, but I will argue in favor of capital punishment. In that case, humans are killing someone (a criminal) who made a conscious choice to rob another person of their rights to live. I support capital punishment for anyone who committs murder intentionally, that's the only crime. It's just. The criminal made a conscious choice to take away another person's freedom to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. He deserves his fate, there's no moral conundrum there.

With abortion, we're robbing that baby of the freedom to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness before that person is even able to exercise one choice.

As humans, we have an obligation to protect life. If someone chooses to consciously and knowingly take away someone else's freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then they have thereby waived their right to the very same. They deserve their fate.

I would totally diagree that someone can waive their right to protection from being killed but this is why I try to avoid discussing these issues in public(irony noted). No one here is going to change their opinions on this stuff no matter what. And I am certainly not going to put much of my time into arguing for the rights of anyone who has killed someone else.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Schneed, it's interesting that you spoke about how being a parent has influenced your views on abortion, but what about education?

To me, that's a huge issue. And all I have is a 9 month old niece. But with it being a more competitive marketplace globally I want her to be in the best position to succeed.

I'm curious to know how parents here feel about education as an issue.

Education is an issue for sure, but it's not on my voting radar because I feel good about my ability to provide a first rate education for my daughter personally. I'm lucky enough to live in a township with one of the best public school systems in Pennsylvania. And there aren't any townships nearby scoring low enough on the standardized tests to have their kids flooding my school based on the No Child Left Behind laws. So I feel insulated from the problems surrounding the issue, personally.

Rising college costs are a problem, though. I'd like to see something done about that, but there are no candidates offering any solutions, and I can't for the life of me imagine what can be done about it. Colleges are in major competition with one another to attract students, so they build facilities and expand, and that costs a buttload.

By the way, I can't help but notice the change of subject. Just so it's clear, I was a little put off by Daseal's attitude but I ain't got no hate. I still love me some puppy-kicker!

[Schneed10]

By the way, kick ass thread we have going on here. I heart you guys and your ability to have mature discussions.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Education is an issue for sure, but it's not on my voting radar because I feel good about my ability to provide a first rate education for my daughter personally. I'm lucky enough to live in a township with one of the best public school systems in Pennsylvania. And there aren't any townships nearby scoring low enough on the standardized tests to have their kids flooding my school based on the No Child Left Behind laws. So I feel insulated from the problems surrounding the issue, personally.

Rising college costs are a problem, though. I'd like to see something done about that, but there are no candidates offering any solutions, and I can't for the life of me imagine what can be done about it. Colleges are in major competition with one another to attract students, so they build facilities and expand, and that costs a buttload.

By the way, I can't help but notice the change of subject. Just so it's clear, I was a little put off by Daseal's attitude but I ain't got no hate. I still love me some puppy-kicker!

Change of subject was not intentional. I had been meaning to ask about education for a while.