Lloyd doesn't make trip to Meadowlands

[Campbell17]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

Is Brandon Lloyd the biggest bust (not in a good way) of Gibbs II?

No, I'd have to say that it was Archuleta, he was over-paid, even for what we think we were getting out of him, and we replaced him by December last year. But we dont have him any more, so who cares?

[calia]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It doesn't send a great message to the team when you just "put a guy out there" who skips meetings, doesn't have much attention to detail (route running), and admits to dogging it (the INT in the endzone against Miami where he made a poor effort to chase down the defender).

This staff has been pretty consistent in sending the message that you have to earn your playing time, and regardless of contract situations if you don't earn your way you simply will not play.

Not only that, I disagree with the earlier commment that having him on the field won't cost us a game -- look at the Packers game when he dropped what would have been a TD. Had someone else been given a chance (e.g., McCardell) and caught it, we win that game. Football is not a game in which one has the luxury to have ANYONE on the field who isn't performing. A perfoming WR is the difference between sustaining drives and not, between TDs and FGs, etc.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by calia

Not only that, I disagree with the earlier commment that having him on the field won't cost us a game -- look at the Packers game when he dropped what would have been a TD. Had someone else been given a chance (e.g., McCardell) and caught it, we win that game. Football is not a game in which one has the luxury to have ANYONE on the field who isn't performing. A perfoming WR is the difference between sustaining drives and not, between TDs and FGs, etc.

I'm by no means a fan of BL, but he didn't drop that pass.

[rk3025]

Have you seen David Patten since he left Washington and signed with New Orleans?
Does a quaterback make that much difference in players stats?

Originally Posted by Stacks42

Im of the opinion that the skins should get them most out of Lloyd that they can. I mean, they have already paid the guy, put him out there. He isnt really going to cost them the game (ie. Arch). It drives me insane that the skins throw away cap money (and real money) as well as draft picks, just to cast players by the wayside. I keep hearing that the skins have given him shot after shot, When? Last year was his first year and he hasnt even gotten on the field this year. 8 games into the season, none of our WRs have a touchdown, moss is clearly not 100%, and we keep picking up 30+ year old WR, can anyone honestly tell me that he is not better than this?

[Stacks42]

Originally Posted by rk3025

Have you seen David Patten since he left Washington and signed with New Orleans?
Does a quaterback make that much difference in players stats?

This could be, yet another example of the skins not getting the full potential out of the players they have on the team.

David Patten - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was the unselfish Patten a locker room problem too? Past his prime? We have to look past the player and look at the issue that; over the past 3-4 years the skins bring in guys, over pay them, then dont use them. If you pay them, at least use em up before you throw them away.

As I stated before, I dont care for Lloyd, but he has already been paid, get what we can get out of him, then get rid of him.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

This could be, yet another example of the skins not getting the full potential out of the players they have on the team.

David Patten - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was the unselfish Patten a locker room problem too? Past his prime? We have to look past the player and look at the issue that; over the past 3-4 years the skins bring in guys, over pay them, then dont use them. If you pay them, at least use em up before you throw them away.

As I stated before, I dont care for Lloyd, but he has already been paid, get what we can get out of him, then get rid of him.

No question the QB/offense plays a major part. Patten's got 24 catches at the midway point w/ 422 yards and 1 td.

I'm no fan of BL but he hasn't really given on field chances. You can't throw to a guy once a game and expect him to contribute.

[Stacks42]

I wasn’t saying that he is an "elite" player; he is only a #3, maybe #2 WR. I just don’t understand why the skins don’t optimize the use of their players? Teams like the Patriots and Cowboys seem to have players that have issues and get the most out of them. Our players on the other hand, ride the pine while collecting huge paychecks. That definitely sends a bad message to players, come to the skins get a ton of guaranteed money up front, after two years go somewhere else. The skins knew what they were getting when they traded draft picks and gave him a huge contract, the same can be said about Archuletta. Now they have to deal with it, put him on the field and make him earn it, at least maybe he will play for an audition for next year. Personally I don’t like the guy, but he is younger and faster than the other two has beens we picked up.

We have seen this three years in a row!

L Arrington.
A. Archuletta
B. Lloyd

All with HUGE contracts with guaranteed money, not playing and treated like crap! If the coaches couldn’t/can’t mold the talent the have provided, then we have to start looking at the coaching staff.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

I wasn’t saying that he is an "elite" player; he is only a #3, maybe #2 WR. I just don’t understand why the skins don’t optimize the use of their players? Teams like the Patriots and Cowboys seem to have players that have issues and get the most out of them. Our players on the other hand, ride the pine while collecting huge paychecks. That definitely sends a bad message to players, come to the skins get a ton of guaranteed money up front, after two years go somewhere else. The skins knew what they were getting when they traded draft picks and gave him a huge contract, the same can be said about Archuletta. Now they have to deal with it, put him on the field and make him earn it, at least maybe he will play for an audition for next year. Personally I don’t like the guy, but he is younger and faster than the other two has beens we picked up.

We have seen this three years in a row!

L Arrington.
A. Archuletta
B. Lloyd

All with HUGE contracts with guaranteed money, not playing and treated like crap! If the coaches couldn’t/can’t mold the talent the have provided, then we have to start looking at the coaching staff.

Talent alone only gets you so far, and a contract does not guarantee playing time either.

In the end Lloyd only has himself to blame.

Do you have any issue with him skipping a team meeting?

[Stacks42]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Talent alone only gets you so far, and a contract does not guarantee playing time either.

In the end Lloyd only has himself to blame.

Do you have any issue with him skipping a team meeting?

While I dont agree with skipping the meeting, its his job he should be there, the skins are correct in benching him in this instance, but what did he do prior to this to get into the dog house? I also understand, you can only get crapped on so many times. The lavar example comes to mind, this guy was the heart and soul of the skins def, they decided to make an example out of him and embarrass him, how jaded was he at the end? I think Lloyd lacks character and is a selfish player, I am not a fan of him at all. I am a skins fan #1 and I want the most talented players out there, did R. Moss fit the Patriots system? No, but they were smart enough to optimize his talents. The guy worked his a$$ off in the in off season, and barely sees the field. I have a feeling that if he makes that catch in the GB game this would not be an issue right now.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

While I dont agree with skipping the meeting, its his job he should be there, the skins are correct in benching him in this instance, but what did he do prior to this to get into the dog house? I also understand, you can only get crapped on so many times. The lavar example comes to mind, this guy was the heart and soul of the skins def, they decided to make an example out of him and embarrass him, how jaded was he at the end? I think Lloyd lacks character and is a selfish player, I am not a fan of him at all. I am a skins fan #1 and I want the most talented players out there, did R. Moss fit the Patriots system? No, but they were smart enough to optimize his talents. The guy worked his a$$ off in the in off season, and barely sees the field. I have a feeling that if he makes that catch in the GB game this would not be an issue right now.

But Stacks - I don't think this coaching staff purposefully sits players like you are saying. If I am correct didn't the Skins give Adam Archuleta about 8 games before finally giving up because his play on the field finally forced the coaches to bench him? As far as Lavar I think you forgot to include the injury issues that also affected his play.

I think everyone would agree that since Joe Gibbs is only going to lead the Skins for a limited time as he gets up there in age, he is going to put the players that give him the best chance to win now - it makes no sense that he intentionally sit players because of a vendetta.

Finally I don't think you can really put Randy Moss and Brandon Llyod in the same paragraph because Moss at least had some very productive seasons in the NFL - Llyod has not. Yes Moss has a lot of issues and the Patiots seem to get a lot of production from others "castoffs" - but the point I am trying to prove is Brandon Llyod has never put up descent numbers like Moss. Llyod didn't produce in San Fran and he has not produced with the Redskins and in my opinion he will never do this with any team because he is simply not a good WR.

You can have all the fast 40 times, the occasional "acrobatic catch" and all the "physical attributes" in the world, but that does not equate to production on the field - point in case look at Wes Welker of the Patriots. Welker is not too big - I belive 5'9" and he is not the fastest guy either, but he is a precise runner with great hands and gets open - and what does he do - he produces.

Brandon Llyod just doesn't produce and after this season no team is going to give him what the Redskins did because Llyod has been exposed for what he is - all talk and no results.

Some team will give him the vet minimum with no bonus if Llyod even shows the small desire to play next year - Llyod will blame the Skins coaching staff and say he was put in the dog house for no reason. Than when week 8 comes by and he has not done a thing for his new team they will grow tired of his act and he will be cut and be out of the NFL for good.
.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

While I dont agree with skipping the meeting, its his job he should be there, the skins are correct in benching him in this instance, but what did he do prior to this to get into the dog house? I also understand, you can only get crapped on so many times. The lavar example comes to mind, this guy was the heart and soul of the skins def, they decided to make an example out of him and embarrass him, how jaded was he at the end? I think Lloyd lacks character and is a selfish player, I am not a fan of him at all. I am a skins fan #1 and I want the most talented players out there, did R. Moss fit the Patriots system? No, but they were smart enough to optimize his talents. The guy worked his a$$ off in the in off season, and barely sees the field. I have a feeling that if he makes that catch in the GB game this would not be an issue right now.

He admitted to dogging it in the Miami game after the INT in the endzone. He came right out and admitted to not hustling. For me personally that's all I would need to hear to bench a guy.

If you want more we can go back to last year, he started the first half of the season and did nothing. He had outbursts with the coaches which caused him to get benched, and he's never gotten out of the doghouse since. Pretty simple.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

He admitted to dogging it in the Miami game after the INT in the endzone. He came right out and admitted to not hustling. For me personally that's all I would need to hear to bench a guy.

If you want more we can go back to last year, he started the first half of the season and did nothing. He had outbursts with the coaches which caused him to get benched, and he's never gotten out of the doghouse since. Pretty simple.

I agree with everything you say Matty, BL has done nothing to help himself. My problem is that a leopard does not changes its spots overnight and although I am not an expert since I didnt watch a lot of SF games when he was a niner, I suspect this has been his M-O his entire career but yet the Skins still decided to sign him. I guess maybe Gibbs thought he could change him but unfortunately he couldnt. I just think this was a bad signing from the beginning (especially considering the draft picks lost) and the Niners were glad to get rid of this guy and laughing all the way to the bank.

[SmootSmack]

By the way, I keep hearing the 49ers really screwed us over. Maybe so, but it's not like the 49ers did great things with the Lloyd trade. They used the money they saved by letting Lloyd go on WR Antonio Bryant (who is out of the league, substance abuse if I remember right). They used their 3rd round pick in 2006 on WR Brandon Williams...who now plays for the Rams. They used their 4th round pick in 2007 on LB Jay Moore...who won't play at all this season (injured reserve)

Just thought I'd send out a little reminder that other teams make poor executive decisions as well.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

By the way, I keep hearing the 49ers really screwed us over. Maybe so, but it's not like the 49ers did great things with the Lloyd trade. They used the money they saved by letting Lloyd go on WR Antonio Bryant (who is out of the league, substance abuse if I remember right). They used their 3rd round pick in 2006 on WR Brandon Williams...who now plays for the Rams. They used their 4th round pick in 2007 on LB Jay Moore...who won't play at all this season (injured reserve)

Just thought I'd send out a little reminder that other teams make poor executive decisions as well.

Good point. I was going to look up what the 49ers did with those picks because ultimately that's how the trade should be graded, and considering the 49ers didn't do much with those picks I don't see how anyone can say they got the better end of the deal. The deal looks like a dud on both ends.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Good point. I was going to look up what the 49ers did with those picks because ultimately that's how the trade should be graded, and considering the 49ers didn't do much with those picks I don't see how anyone can say they got the better end of the deal. The deal looks like a dud on both ends.

But who's to say the Skins would have used those choices on those players - lets say the Skins saw what was coming with Dockery leaving and instead used those picks to draft 2 guards and one of them panned out and become the next Dockery - would you still say the same thing?

Matty - not trying to be nitpicky here - my hope is the Skins stop throwing draft picks around like they did in the past because my belief is the only way to build long lasting quality teams is through the draft with some free agent spinkles if you know what I mean. I know that a lot of draft picks will not turn out to be good, but at least with more picks you get more chances and outside of the 1st round picks from the 2nd round down they don't squeeze the cap like a $10 million dollar bonus to a Brandon Llyod does.