$700 B Bailout

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 09-30-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Assuming you own your own home I am curious as to how many people in here actually read their loan documents in their entirety before they signed them?

I did. No one should ever expect that people who are in the business of making money off of you (e.g., lenders) are also looking out for your best interests. To absolve people of all blame for signing documents that they did not read doesn't seem right. The lenders deserve some blame for this crisis, but so do the borrowers.

Slingin Sammy 33 · 09-30-2008, 10:05 PM

Since YouTube videos seem to be the thing to do I thought this was appropriate. Seems like there is some serious blame lying a the feet of the Dems in this video. At 8:15, President Clinton weighs in also.

YouTube - Democrats Defend Fannie/Freddie from...

I do NOT agree with the accusation in the video that "Frank Raines is Obama's economic advisor". I haven't researched any other claims the video makes, but it looks pretty damning for the Dems in that committee.

saden1 · 10-01-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Since YouTube videos seem to be the thing to do I thought this was appropriate. Seems like there is some serious blame lying a the feet of the Dems in this video. At 8:15, President Clinton weighs in also.

YouTube - Democrats Defend Fannie/Freddie from Regulation - 2004 Video

I do NOT agree with the accusation in the video that "Frank Raines is Obama's economic advisor". I haven't researched any other claims the video makes, but it looks pretty damning for the Dems in that committee.

Man, those people need a beat down. The Dems look like they were bought and paid for by Fannie and Freddie. Waters seems like Raines mistress.

hesscl34 · 10-01-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Assuming you own your own home I am curious as to how many people in here actually read their loan documents in their entirety before they signed them?

I did. I got it right at the beginning of the bubble at a 30yr fixed 5.5% rate. I locked it and stayed there. I never refinanced and took money out when my equity started to go through the ceiling. The average American is not financially savvy enough to know the loans the banks are selling were high risk.

firstdown · 10-01-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesscl34

I did. I got it right at the beginning of the bubble at a 30yr fixed 5.5% rate. I locked it and stayed there. I never refinanced and took money out when my equity started to go through the ceiling. The average American is not financially savvy enough to know the loans the banks are selling were high risk.

I believe that most people knew what they were doing when they took out these loans. Its just easier to blame someone else now that things have gone south.

djnemo65 · 09-30-2008, 09:56 PM

By law in most states an independent lawyer is required to be present during the closing process. It is their job to make sure the borrower understands the terms of the loan, as well as to alert them if they feel the borrower is being swindled in any way. This is not true in all states but in most. So, while it's easy to blame the lenders for this mess, the public was eager to buy in. They wanted big screens and new cars; as their homes swelled in value they viewed that as free money to finance a lifestyle they couldn't otherwise afford. This was fine as long as houses were appreciating at 20 percent per year, and many wanted to believe it would go on forever, but it didn't. While it's politically expedient to absolve the public of all blame in this, the fact is that people largely did understand the terms of their loans. They wanted the cash. They gambled on the US housing market expanding forever and were wrong. So did Wall Street, and that is why we are where we are.

FRPLG · 10-01-2008, 01:05 AM

The basis for the current credit crunch this country is facing comes directly from our government's deisre to get more people owning houses. Efforts to create a market of "affordable housing" initially forced banks via legislation and litigation to loosen decades of conventional lending practices based on financial sense and empircal evidence. Basically the gov't forced lenders to create programs that allowed people who were broke to buy houses. In a lot a ways this was a good gesture and even smart. Hell they even implemented it somewhat properly initially essentially guaranteeing the loans via Fannie and Freddie. The problem is then they got politcally greedy and really started pushing to open this "affordable housing" market up, despite what smart people knew were probable long term issues. They let Freddie and Fannie become bastions of bad loans and they couldn't support them and they failed. This has sucked the value out of the credit market because all these loans, bundled as securities and bonds so they could be sold(because they were shit and banks knew it) became "valueless" because the net(freddie and fannie) was gone. On top of that the "real value", the actual values of the homes within these loans, aren't considered within the market as part of the asset value of the securities BY LAW. So loans worth 30B in actual property are only worth 10B on paper. Market seizure time baby!

The video Slinggin posts actully has a good timeline of what has gone on from a political standpoint if you just try and ignore the rhetoric.

Make no mistake, the fault on this from a purely politcal standpoint lays at the feet of the democrats and their blind mission to get poor people to buy houses but in all honesty the Repubs had plenty of opportunity to fix this in the 15 years and didn't do it. It would have been politically unpopular to basically end the free ride and none of them had the cajones to what was right. They ignored it out of self preservation while dems were too dumb to even realize what was happening.

What is pissing me off right now though is this bullshit about "8 years of failed economic policies". This has nothing to do with deregulation at all or any of Bush's economics. This crap was going on before Bush and regulators told everyone and everyone basically couldn't figure out a way it helped them politically so they did nothing.

F 'em all. Blame Bush for a lot of crap but this doesn't even remotely have anything do with him from a causation standpoint.

firstdown · 10-01-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The basis for the current credit crunch this country is facing comes directly from our government's deisre to get more people owning houses. Efforts to create a market of "affordable housing" initially forced banks via legislation and litigation to loosen decades of conventional lending practices based on financial sense and empircal evidence. Basically the gov't forced lenders to create programs that allowed people who were broke to buy houses. In a lot a ways this was a good gesture and even smart. Hell they even implemented it somewhat properly initially essentially guaranteeing the loans via Fannie and Freddie. The problem is then they got politcally greedy and really started pushing to open this "affordable housing" market up, despite what smart people knew were probable long term issues. They let Freddie and Fannie become bastions of bad loans and they couldn't support them and they failed. This has sucked the value out of the credit market because all these loans, bundled as securities and bonds so they could be sold(because they were shit and banks knew it) became "valueless" because the net(freddie and fannie) was gone. On top of that the "real value", the actual values of the homes within these loans, aren't considered within the market as part of the asset value of the securities BY LAW. So loans worth 30B in actual property are only worth 10B on paper. Market seizure time baby!

The video Slinggin posts actully has a good timeline of what has gone on from a political standpoint if you just try and ignore the rhetoric.

Make no mistake, the fault on this from a purely politcal standpoint lays at the feet of the democrats and their blind mission to get poor people to buy houses but in all honesty the Repubs had plenty of opportunity to fix this in the 15 years and didn't do it. It would have been politically unpopular to basically end the free ride and none of them had the cajones to what was right. They ignored it out of self preservation while dems were too dumb to even realize what was happening.

What is pissing me off right now though is this bullshit about "8 years of failed economic policies". This has nothing to do with deregulation at all or any of Bush's economics. This crap was going on before Bush and regulators told everyone and everyone basically couldn't figure out a way it helped them politically so they did nothing.

F 'em all. Blame Bush for a lot of crap but this doesn't even remotely have anything do with him from a causation standpoint.

I agree the Rep had time to fix this but what would the headlines have read if they decided to tighten credit and loans which would affect lower income the most. It would have been a politial suicide and they knew that. Just look back at the early 90's and Newt and all the starving children and hurting old people news articles that went on with everything he tried to do.

FRPLG · 10-01-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

I agree the Rep had time to fix this but what would the headlines have read if they decided to tighten credit and loans which would affect lower income the most. It would have been a politial suicide and they knew that. Just look back at the early 90's and Newt and all the starving children and hurting old people news articles that went on with everything he tried to do.

Not only do they not get a pass from me for avoiding fixing this because it would have been political suicide, they also get to share the blame. They had a job to do and didn't. Just like the dummies who supposedly didn't vote for the bill because of Pelosi's speech. I hated the bill and I am glad they voted against it but if their reason for voting against this truly was that her speech was mean then they all need to get kicked in the head.

firstdown · 10-01-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Not only do they not get a pass from me for avoiding fixing this because it would have been political suicide, they also get to share the blame. They had a job to do and didn't. Just like the dummies who supposedly didn't vote for the bill because of Pelosi's speech. I hated the bill and I am glad they voted against it but if their reason for voting against this truly was that her speech was mean then they all need to get kicked in the head.

I was not giving anyone a pass just making a statement of how it would have gone down if they tried. Have not heard anything about people not voting on a bill because of what Pelosi said.

saden1 · 10-02-2008, 12:01 PM

Please explain to me what this guy is saying:

hooskins · 10-02-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Please explain to me what this guy is saying:

Like any politician, circumventing the question. A much better answer would be to mention the system is flawed but overall it was the best choice for it's other benefits.

Or better yet, just bullshit from the beginning, do not dig yourself in a hole.

Slingin Sammy 33 · 10-02-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

Please explain to me what this guy is saying:

I don't even care what he said, once I saw the graphic of the pork, I just blanked out. I wish MSNBC had named names. Whoever is pushing pork in this should be hit in the head with a tire iron.

Damn, I wish there was a Line Item veto right about now.

dmek25 · 10-02-2008, 04:57 PM

saden, do us all a favor, keep posting these you tube moments. its hard to dispute what they are saying, when we hear it right from the horses mouth

dmek25 · 10-02-2008, 05:21 PM

how is McCain going to veto all of the bills that contain pork, when he is voting for them?

09-30-2008, 09:56 PM	#6
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: $700 B Bailout By law in most states an independent lawyer is required to be present during the closing process. It is their job to make sure the borrower understands the terms of the loan, as well as to alert them if they feel the borrower is being swindled in any way. This is not true in all states but in most. So, while it's easy to blame the lenders for this mess, the public was eager to buy in. They wanted big screens and new cars; as their homes swelled in value they viewed that as free money to finance a lifestyle they couldn't otherwise afford. This was fine as long as houses were appreciating at 20 percent per year, and many wanted to believe it would go on forever, but it didn't. While it's politically expedient to absolve the public of all blame in this, the fact is that people largely did understand the terms of their loans. They wanted the cash. They gambled on the US housing market expanding forever and were wrong. So did Wall Street, and that is why we are where we are.

10-01-2008, 01:05 AM	#7
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 10,164	Re: $700 B Bailout The basis for the current credit crunch this country is facing comes directly from our government's deisre to get more people owning houses. Efforts to create a market of "affordable housing" initially forced banks via legislation and litigation to loosen decades of conventional lending practices based on financial sense and empircal evidence. Basically the gov't forced lenders to create programs that allowed people who were broke to buy houses. In a lot a ways this was a good gesture and even smart. Hell they even implemented it somewhat properly initially essentially guaranteeing the loans via Fannie and Freddie. The problem is then they got politcally greedy and really started pushing to open this "affordable housing" market up, despite what smart people knew were probable long term issues. They let Freddie and Fannie become bastions of bad loans and they couldn't support them and they failed. This has sucked the value out of the credit market because all these loans, bundled as securities and bonds so they could be sold(because they were shit and banks knew it) became "valueless" because the net(freddie and fannie) was gone. On top of that the "real value", the actual values of the homes within these loans, aren't considered within the market as part of the asset value of the securities BY LAW. So loans worth 30B in actual property are only worth 10B on paper. Market seizure time baby! The video Slinggin posts actully has a good timeline of what has gone on from a political standpoint if you just try and ignore the rhetoric. Make no mistake, the fault on this from a purely politcal standpoint lays at the feet of the democrats and their blind mission to get poor people to buy houses but in all honesty the Repubs had plenty of opportunity to fix this in the 15 years and didn't do it. It would have been politically unpopular to basically end the free ride and none of them had the cajones to what was right. They ignored it out of self preservation while dems were too dumb to even realize what was happening. What is pissing me off right now though is this bullshit about "8 years of failed economic policies". This has nothing to do with deregulation at all or any of Bush's economics. This crap was going on before Bush and regulators told everyone and everyone basically couldn't figure out a way it helped them politically so they did nothing. F 'em all. Blame Bush for a lot of crap but this doesn't even remotely have anything do with him from a causation standpoint.

10-02-2008, 12:01 PM	#11
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 46 Posts: 10,069	Re: $700 B Bailout Please explain to me what this guy is saying: __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

10-02-2008, 04:57 PM	#14
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 64 Posts: 10,672	Re: $700 B Bailout saden, do us all a favor, keep posting these you tube moments. its hard to dispute what they are saying, when we hear it right from the horses mouth __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

10-02-2008, 05:21 PM	#15
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 64 Posts: 10,672	Re: $700 B Bailout how is McCain going to veto all of the bills that contain pork, when he is voting for them? __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

$700 B Bailout

Parking Lot