Our WRs in 2009... My Thoughts

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Tj would be a great move, and I bet you could get him for a decent price also. He has to be tired of the BS in Cincy by now. At some point these guys do want a legacy, meaning a ring. He has no hope of that with Ocho Cinco and the oft injured Palmer. Marv Lewis sucks as a HC. Snyder did well in not giving him our HC position.

TJ is going to cost too much. If they can find a diamond in the rough, I say go for it. Look at what Tampa got out of Antonio Bryant this year. Otherwise, they need to work with what they've got.

The top WRs in the league will likely be watching the Super Bowl from home this year (just like the top cornerbacks). WRs, like most skill positions other than the QB, don't win championships. Good coaching, good line play and great defense is what it takes.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

TJ is going to cost too much. If they can find a diamond in the rough, I say go for it. Look at what Tampa got out of Antonio Bryant this year. Otherwise, they need to work with what they've got.

The top WRs in the league will likely be watching the Super Bowl from home this year (just like the top cornerbacks). WRs, like most skill positions other than the QB, don't win championships. Good coaching, good line play and great defense is what it takes.

So Randy Moss, Wes Welker (Moss makes defenses play softer allowing Welker to run our type routes underneath), & Burress watched the Super Bowl last year?

How about Reggie Wayne & Marvin Harrison? Plaxico Burress last year?

I totally agree that lines have to get you to a championship, BUT you have to have dependable receivers who can get open, make tough catches, especially around the endzone to WIN championships (Tyree's catch & Burress' TD comes to mind from last years SB)

I think our line needs DEPTH, but they proved for the first 8 weeks what they can do when the passing game is a least A LITTLE successful to keep other teams out of the box... I mean, Portis sets a record for consecutive 150 yard games midseason & now all of the sudden they are terrible.

I'll say again... it goes back to defenses making the adjustment to not play soft any more and let our little scat-type receivers get easy space off the line for their little 6-8 yard routes... they took those away and BAM, now no passing threat, pack the box, no more running game, no receivers open when Campbell plants back foot, etc.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

So Randy Moss, Wes Welker (Moss makes defenses play softer allowing Welker to run our type routes underneath), & Burress watched the Super Bowl last year?

How about Reggie Wayne & Marvin Harrison? Plaxico Burress last year?

I totally agree that lines have to get you to a championship, BUT you have to have dependable receivers who can get open, make tough catches, especially around the endzone to WIN championships (Tyree's catch & Burress' TD comes to mind from last years SB)

I think our line needs DEPTH, but they proved for the first 8 weeks what they can do when the passing game is a least A LITTLE successful to keep other teams out of the box... I mean, Portis sets a record for consecutive 150 yard games midseason & now all of the sudden they are terrible.

I'll say again... it goes back to defenses making the adjustment to not play soft any more and let our little scat-type receivers get easy space off the line for their little 6-8 yard routes... they took those away and BAM, now no passing threat, pack the box, no more running game, no receivers open when Campbell plants back foot, etc.

Harrison and Wayne, with their Hall of Fame QB, just lost to the Chargers and their scary-talented wide receivers Throwing to RBs and TEs didn't look half bad. Kind of reminded me of the Chiefs a few years ago. Maybe we should have tried that.

As for the Patriots, they were consistently good and won 3 Super Bowls before Welker and Moss got there. Remember Deion Branch? That said, if the Skins could get a player like Randy Moss for a 4th round pick, I'm all for it. And the Patriots have the kind of system that could probably take a guy like ARE and make him produce like Welker

As for Tyree, was he really "OPEN"? And can Campbell make the kind of play Eli made to get the pass off? If so, I haven't seen it yet.

Call it depth or whatever you want, but the line(s) has to be the priority. Too much age and too many injuries. Cerrato took Kelly, Thomas and Davis early last year, so it's up to the coaches to get them ready to play. If the WRs can't get open, design more plays to the backs and tight ends, run some gadget plays, get all your RBs involved in the running game, move the pocket around and most importantly, throw them the ball anyway. NFL receivers don't have to be open to make catches.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Harrison and Wayne, with their Hall of Fame QB, just lost to the Chargers and their scary-talented wide receivers Throwing to RBs and TEs didn't look half bad. Kind of reminded me of the Chiefs a few years ago. Maybe we should have tried that.

As for the Patriots, they were consistently good and won 3 Super Bowls before Welker and Moss got there. Remember Deion Branch? That said, if the Skins could get a player like Randy Moss for a 4th round pick, I'm all for it. And the Patriots have the kind of system that could probably take a guy like ARE and make him produce like Welker

As for Tyree, was he really "OPEN"? And can Campbell make the kind of play Eli made to get the pass off? If so, I haven't seen it yet.

Call it depth or whatever you want, but the line(s) has to be the priority. Too much age and too many injuries. Cerrato took Kelly, Thomas and Davis early last year, so it's up to the coaches to get them ready to play. If the WRs can't get open, design more plays to the backs and tight ends, run some gadget plays, get all your RBs involved in the running game, move the pocket around and most importantly, throw them the ball anyway. NFL receivers don't have to be open to make catches.

Excellent post Deezel!!! The receivers will take time, signing more isn't the answer. It's about the O-LINE. That's where games are won and lost. The Patriots line played great last year until the Super Bowl....that's when they lost.

[redskins5044]

we drafted 2 wrs last year, they need to develop during the offseason. we need to get help on lines. but jason is going to have to improve this offseason, even when had time to pass the ball, he locks onto one wr, he needs to learn not to lock on one guy

[44Deezel]

I think the best teams are the ones who get the most out of what they've got (see Bill Parcells). Here's how I think the Skins can improve the passing game:

1) Move the pocket - If the O line is struggling, then move the pocket or get good at HB screens and other plays that negate a good pass rush, etc. Zorn should have called more bootlegs this season, including naked bootlegs on the goal line. Campbell is good at making tacklers miss once he gets going, so I don't know why he couldn't rush for more TDs.

2) More imaginative play calling - we've seen Portis and ARE be successful throwing the ball (remember the TD pass from ARE to Cooley against the Eagles) and other teams made effective use of the Wildcat formation all season long. Look at what the Ravens did all year and the Steelers used to do under Cowher. They were good for 2-3 "trick" plays every game, and we're effective running those plays because it was part of their identity.

3) Get the backs involved in the passing game - I hear lots of complaints about our receivers, but the last time I checked, RBs were allowed to catch balls as well. Why Portis hasn't been more of a receiving threat during his career I'll never understand. Who were the Chiefs all-world wide receivers when they were one of the top scoring offenses in the league? Does the name Priest Holmes ring a bell?

4) Go to a 2 or 3 back system - Feature backs are almost a thing of the past. And even teams that do rely heavily on a primary RB get significant production from the backup RB (Chargers, Vikings, Falcons, etc.). The best running teams platoon their backs - Giants, Titans, Panthers, Patriots, etc. Having a consistent, healthy running game will help the passing game remain a factor all season long. The Skins can't continue to give Portis 340 plus carries each year. I think the Skins can use Portis, Betts and Cartwright much like the Ravens and Giants use their backs.

5) Get young and better on the O line - Campbell is a servicable QB when he has time to throw. Better play calling, another year in Zorn's system (this excuse gets discredited time and time again by other teams, but OK), better pass protection and the development of Thomas and/or Kelly and Davis, should produce better results next year. Remember, the Skins just needed to beat the Bengals, Rams and 49ers to be 11-5 and in the playoffs (I know, ifs and buts are like elbows). Someone said we used to have great receivers when we won those Super Bowls in the 80s and early 90s. No we didn't We had great O lines and pretty decent QBs (none of which are in the HOF). Rick Sanders had 9 catches for 193 yards in the Super Bowl for crying out loud. Who the hell is Ricky Sanders?

6) Encourage Campbell to take more chances - Maybe it was Gibbs that did it to him, but Campbell has developed a crippling phobia of interceptions. I know he only had 6, but his team also finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs. To throw for only 156 yards in a loss against a poor pass defense in a meaningless game is a sin. Let 'er rip! I remember when Brian Griese had 19 TDs and only 4 INTs for the Broncos. How did his career turn out? And I've got news for everyone who complains that our receivers never get open. It's the NFL. Receivers aren't always open. Receivers make plays ALL THE TIME with defeners draped all over them. And if our wide outs are too short to out jump the defender, then throw the ball short and let the wide receiver come back to the ball. The Skins once had a receiving corp that was so good it was given a nickname. That nickname was "The Smurfs". So spare me the garbage about our receivers being too short. The single best season produced by a Redskins WR was delivered by Santana Moss with friggin Mark Brunell as his QB. Where will TO, Randy Moss, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson be watching the Super Bowl from? They're living rooms.

The Skins had less pass interference calls than any other team in the league and couldn't outscore the first team to go 0-16. Maybe if Zorn gave Campbell the green light to take more chances, he would be more willing to throw into tight coverage. This would solve his problem of holding onto the ball too long. Single coverage is open in the NFL.

The bottom line is that the wide receivers aren't the problem. Most of the biggest and baddest receivers in the game will be sitting this year's Super Bowl out while a guy like Ricky Sanders or Deion Brach could very well be the difference maker.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

I think the best teams are the ones who get the most out of what they've got (see Bill Parcells). Here's how I think the Skins can improve the passing game:

1) Move the pocket - If the O line is struggling, then move the pocket or get good at HB screens and other plays that negate a good pass rush, etc. Zorn should have called more bootlegs this season, including naked bootlegs on the goal line. Campbell is good at making tacklers miss once he gets going, so I don't know why he couldn't rush for more TDs.

2) More imaginative play calling - we've seen Portis and ARE be successful throwing the ball (remember the TD pass from ARE to Cooley against the Eagles) and other teams made effective use of the Wildcat formation all season long. Look at what the Ravens did all year and the Steelers used to do under Cowher. They were good for 2-3 "trick" plays every game, and we're effective running those plays because it was part of their identity.

3) Get the backs involved in the passing game - I hear lots of complaints about our receivers, but the last time I checked, RBs were allowed to catch balls as well. Why Portis hasn't been more of a receiving threat during his career I'll never understand. Who were the Chiefs all-world wide receivers when they were one of the top scoring offenses in the league? Does the name Priest Holmes ring a bell?

4) Go to a 2 or 3 back system - Feature backs are almost a thing of the past. And even teams that do rely heavily on a primary RB get significant production from the backup RB (Chargers, Vikings, Falcons, etc.). The best running teams platoon their backs - Giants, Titans, Panthers, Patriots, etc. Having a consistent, healthy running game will help the passing game remain a factor all season long. The Skins can't continue to give Portis 340 plus carries each year. I think the Skins can use Portis, Betts and Cartwright much like the Ravens and Giants use their backs.

5) Get young and better on the O line - Campbell is a servicable QB when he has time to throw. Better play calling, another year in Zorn's system (this excuse gets discredited time and time again by other teams, but OK), better pass protection and the development of Thomas and/or Kelly and Davis, should produce better results next year. Remember, the Skins just needed to beat the Bengals, Rams and 49ers to be 11-5 and in the playoffs (I know, ifs and buts are like elbows). Someone said we used to have great receivers when we won those Super Bowls in the 80s and early 90s. No we didn't We had great O lines and pretty decent QBs (none of which are in the HOF). Rick Sanders had 9 catches for 193 yards in the Super Bowl for crying out loud. Who the hell is Ricky Sanders?

6) Encourage Campbell to take more chances - Maybe it was Gibbs that did it to him, but Campbell has developed a crippling phobia of interceptions. I know he only had 6, but his team also finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs. To throw for only 156 yards in a loss against a poor pass defense in a meaningless game is a sin. Let 'er rip! I remember when Brian Griese had 19 TDs and only 4 INTs for the Broncos. How did his career turn out? And I've got news for everyone who complains that our receivers never get open. It's the NFL. Receivers aren't always open. Receivers make plays ALL THE TIME with defeners draped all over them. And if our wide outs are too short to out jump the defender, then throw the ball short and let the wide receiver come back to the ball. The Skins once had a receiving corp that was so good it was given a nickname. That nickname was "The Smurfs". So spare me the garbage about our receivers being too short. The single best season produced by a Redskins WR was delivered by Santana Moss with friggin Mark Brunell as his QB. Where will TO, Randy Moss, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson be watching the Super Bowl from? They're living rooms.

The Skins had less pass interference calls than any other team in the league and couldn't outscore the first team to go 0-16. Maybe if Zorn gave Campbell the green light to take more chances, he would be more willing to throw into tight coverage. This would solve his problem of holding onto the ball too long. Single coverage is open in the NFL.

The bottom line is that the wide receivers aren't the problem. Most of the biggest and baddest receivers in the game will be sitting this year's Super Bowl out while a guy like Ricky Sanders or Deion Brach could very well be the difference maker.

Great post. Agreed on all points. I don't think Betts is a good enough back to effectively run a 2 back system because he needs to be 'the guy' in order for him to be effective. We need a sparkplug back there (SPROLES) who can make things happen anytime he touches the ball.

I think one of Zorn's biggest challenges with JC is un-coaching the Gibbs fear of turnovers. You've got to take chances in order to be great. He's so used to look, look, hold it rather than take 7 steps and throw it downfield even if your man is covered. Don't take stupid risks, but you've got to take chances as an NFL QB.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

I think the best teams are the ones who get the most out of what they've got (see Bill Parcells). Here's how I think the Skins can improve the passing game:

1) Move the pocket - If the O line is struggling, then move the pocket or get good at HB screens and other plays that negate a good pass rush, etc. Zorn should have called more bootlegs this season, including naked bootlegs on the goal line. Campbell is good at making tacklers miss once he gets going, so I don't know why he couldn't rush for more TDs.

2) More imaginative play calling - we've seen Portis and ARE be successful throwing the ball (remember the TD pass from ARE to Cooley against the Eagles) and other teams made effective use of the Wildcat formation all season long. Look at what the Ravens did all year and the Steelers used to do under Cowher. They were good for 2-3 "trick" plays every game, and we're effective running those plays because it was part of their identity.

3) Get the backs involved in the passing game - I hear lots of complaints about our receivers, but the last time I checked, RBs were allowed to catch balls as well. Why Portis hasn't been more of a receiving threat during his career I'll never understand. Who were the Chiefs all-world wide receivers when they were one of the top scoring offenses in the league? Does the name Priest Holmes ring a bell?

4) Go to a 2 or 3 back system - Feature backs are almost a thing of the past. And even teams that do rely heavily on a primary RB get significant production from the backup RB (Chargers, Vikings, Falcons, etc.). The best running teams platoon their backs - Giants, Titans, Panthers, Patriots, etc. Having a consistent, healthy running game will help the passing game remain a factor all season long. The Skins can't continue to give Portis 340 plus carries each year. I think the Skins can use Portis, Betts and Cartwright much like the Ravens and Giants use their backs.

5) Get young and better on the O line - Campbell is a servicable QB when he has time to throw. Better play calling, another year in Zorn's system (this excuse gets discredited time and time again by other teams, but OK), better pass protection and the development of Thomas and/or Kelly and Davis, should produce better results next year. Remember, the Skins just needed to beat the Bengals, Rams and 49ers to be 11-5 and in the playoffs (I know, ifs and buts are like elbows). Someone said we used to have great receivers when we won those Super Bowls in the 80s and early 90s. No we didn't We had great O lines and pretty decent QBs (none of which are in the HOF). Rick Sanders had 9 catches for 193 yards in the Super Bowl for crying out loud. Who the hell is Ricky Sanders?

6) Encourage Campbell to take more chances - Maybe it was Gibbs that did it to him, but Campbell has developed a crippling phobia of interceptions. I know he only had 6, but his team also finished 8-8 and out of the playoffs. To throw for only 156 yards in a loss against a poor pass defense in a meaningless game is a sin. Let 'er rip! I remember when Brian Griese had 19 TDs and only 4 INTs for the Broncos. How did his career turn out? And I've got news for everyone who complains that our receivers never get open. It's the NFL. Receivers aren't always open. Receivers make plays ALL THE TIME with defeners draped all over them. And if our wide outs are too short to out jump the defender, then throw the ball short and let the wide receiver come back to the ball. The Skins once had a receiving corp that was so good it was given a nickname. That nickname was "The Smurfs". So spare me the garbage about our receivers being too short. The single best season produced by a Redskins WR was delivered by Santana Moss with friggin Mark Brunell as his QB. Where will TO, Randy Moss, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson be watching the Super Bowl from? They're living rooms.

The Skins had less pass interference calls than any other team in the league and couldn't outscore the first team to go 0-16. Maybe if Zorn gave Campbell the green light to take more chances, he would be more willing to throw into tight coverage. This would solve his problem of holding onto the ball too long. Single coverage is open in the NFL.

The bottom line is that the wide receivers aren't the problem. Most of the biggest and baddest receivers in the game will be sitting this year's Super Bowl out while a guy like Ricky Sanders or Deion Brach could very well be the difference maker.

I sort of agree with you about Gibbs JC and pickaphobia. Just look at what happened to Patrick Ramsey. Poor bastard throws a pick and his career goes into the toilet!!!!!! Seeing that would make me leary of throwing any errant balls!!!

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Rick Sanders had 9 catches for 193 yards in the Super Bowl for crying out loud. Who the hell is Ricky Sanders?

He had 2 1000 yard seasons with us man, maybe not a legacy or anything, but worth mentioning

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

He had 2 1000 yard seasons with us man, maybe not a legacy or anything, but worth mentioning

2 whole seasons? Just kidding. Much respect to Sanders, even though he also had 7 seasons ranging from 286 to 727 yards. My point was that you can win with guys like Sanders. He's only 5'11. The league is filled with receivers who can put up great stats in the right situation (and vice versa - poor stats in the wrong situation - El, Loyd, all the WRs the Skins have overpaid for the last 10 years). As much praise as we lavish on Santana Moss, only has 3 1000 yard seasons in his 8 seasons.


There are great bargains to be had at WR, but the Skins have shown they're not good bargain hunters. They should spend elsewhere.

[44ever]

4) 2 or 3 back system. Strongly agree. I just posted earlier in the FA thread how I would love to see Jacobs in the back with Portis. But Betts will do. I believe it can be very effective and add pass protection as well. We used to use this back in the old Gibbs days with John riggins and Joe Washington. And some of the best teams still do

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 44ever

4) 2 or 3 back system. Strongly agree. I just posted earlier in the FA thread how I would love to see Jacobs in the back with Portis. But Betts will do. I believe it can be very effective and add pass protection as well. We used to use this back in the old Gibbs days. And some of the best teams still do

I agree. Betts is a player. Anyone who can put together 5 100 yard rushing games in a row has my attention. There was nothing fluky about it either. What a waste of a potentially lethal offensive weapon to only give him 60 or so carries this year. And Cartwright has proven what he can do in the open field. Give him 5 or so carries a game and I have no doubt he'll break off a few long runs for scores.

[Skins4L]

still..
Devin Thomas... 3 Rush Attempts (3 reverses) 53 yards and a TD. Weve somehow, someway gotta make it a point to get the ball in his hands.

[LandrySlice]

Get the ball in Deven Eleven's hands, and magic will happen! We need no more recievers for a while! Does anyone know why Rhinehart did not play at all this year, and will he be playing next year at a starting capacity?

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by LandrySlice

Get the ball in Deven Eleven's hands, and magic will happen! We need no more recievers for a while! Does anyone know why Rhinehart did not play at all this year, and will he be playing next year at a starting capacity?

According to the latest WP article, many of the coaches think Rhinehart isn't ready as a starter or even backup. Another 2008 draft pick who will need "more time to develop".... or will never be NFL material.