Saints Hire Gregg Williams for D-Coordinator Job

[44ever]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Williams was 17-31 in 3 seasons in Buffalo. He was fired after going 6-10 in his 3rd year. Zorn goes 8-8 his first year and people want to talk about what a good headcoach Williams would have been for us. As far as Zorn inheriting a playoff team, as Ruhskins said, we backed into the playoffs last year at 9-7. Williams is a good DC just like Norv is a good OC. That doesn't make you a good headcoach. This BS about Zorn inheriting a playoff team is really getting old and as good as Williams was as DC, he was also an unbearable ass at times. I guess it's easier to say we shoulda done this or that before giving things a chance to play out instead of just supporting who we have.

Das wud I'm tawkin bout 53! Tired of it. You can't compare what one team did and another didn't. Out of all 32 teams in the NFL. Who had to open against the Super Bowl Champs? Redskins did! That could have set the tempo for a 4-12 season but we overcame the loss. I didn't see any other team have to start there season like that.

Secondly if we had played Miami of the Falcons in the first part of the season. Redskins and our rookie HC would have tore them up. It's all about circumstanses. Next season will be better. Count on it!

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I am not hating Zorn. I hope Zorn becomes the next great coach.
I was responding to previous posts on this thread that theorized that because other teams passed on GW, that some how that means we made the right call in hiring Zorn.
I was saying the jury is still out on this staff and it is much too soon to say we made the "right call in hiring Zorn." While also defending GW.

While the record were somewhat similar from Gibbs 2007 to Zorn's 2008 seasons, the teams finished the seasons in completely different ways.
Gibbs won his final 5 games including big wins in a 22-10 week 15 win at Giants and a 27-6 blow out of the Cowboys in the final week of the season that got us in the playoffs.
Zorn's 2008 Redskins came out strong to an ealy 6-2 record in September in October, they went a dismal 2-6 in November and Decmber, when it matters most.
While Zorn's 8-8 record is very respectable for a rookie NFL coach, the Redskins looked pitifully bad in their week 15 loss to the Bengals and week 17 loss to the 49ers. Reminded me of the old Spurrier days. That is what I mean by the team regressed.

I agree that we didn't finish well. Gibbs made adjustments after Cooke told him to give Riggins the damn ball and Zorn is still trying to install the WCO. But I think the second half of the season had as much to do with poor 0-line play and rookie receivers who either couldn't get on the field or run the correct routes as much as anything else.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I agree that we didn't finish well. Gibbs made adjustments after Cooke told him to give Riggins the damn ball and Zorn is still trying to install the WCO. But I think the second half of the season had as much to do with poor 0-line play and rookie receivers who either couldn't get on the field or run the correct routes as much as anything else.

I agree that the players on the field did not perform well late in the season. A lot went wrong. There is a lot of gray area that is not so easy to distinctly say this is the reason for the poor outcomes. Some may theorize the rest of the NFL caught up to Zorn's play calling and now he is a sitting duck. I am not thinking that, but I have heard it in other circles. All I am saying is the poor play in the second half of the season can just as easily be blamed on poor coaching.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree that the players on the field did not perform well late in the season. A lot went wrong. There is a lot of gray area that is not so easy to distinctly say this is the reason for the poor outcomes. Some may theorize the rest of the NFL caught up to Zorn's play calling and now he is a sitting duck. I am not thinking that, but I have heard it in other circles. All I am saying is the poor play in the second half of the season can just as easily be blamed on poor coaching.

I don't know if Zorn is the answer for this team or not. I hope so, and would just like to see him given a fair chance. That's all.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I don't know if Zorn is the answer for this team or not. I hope so, and would just like to see him given a fair chance. That's all.

Tell me about it. I am a die hard Redskins fan. I want Zorn to be the best HC the Redskins have ever had.
I also would have liked to have seen GW and Saunders given a fair chance as well when Gibbs left. They have very good football minds. There are several coaches that found the promise land on their second HC jobs like Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden to name a few. GWilliams is not a bad coach.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Tell me about it. I am a die hard Redskins fan. I want Zorn to be the best HC the Redskins have ever had.
I also would have liked to have seen GW and Saunders given a fair chance as well when Gibbs left. They have very good football minds. There are several coaches that found the promise land on their second HC jobs like Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden to name a few. GWilliams is not a bad coach.

The ones you mention didn't do too bad in their first HC jobs either. Coughlin with Jacksonville, Dungy with Tampa Bay and Gruden with Oakland. Not to continue the disagreement, but Williams didn't come close to what these others did in his first HC job.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree that the players on the field did not perform well late in the season. A lot went wrong. There is a lot of gray area that is not so easy to distinctly say this is the reason for the poor outcomes. Some may theorize the rest of the NFL caught up to Zorn's play calling and now he is a sitting duck. I am not thinking that, but I have heard it in other circles. All I am saying is the poor play in the second half of the season can just as easily be blamed on poor coaching.

If one were to blame poor coaching, they could make a pretty good case by pointing out the following:

1) Rookies - The Skins offense was among the worst in the league during the second half of the season. How much worse could it have been with Davis, Kelly and Thomas in the line-up, especially in the last 2 games of the season when nothing was on the line? DeSean Jackson is the biggest knucklehead there is, but the Eagles coaching staff found a way to use him.

2) The RBs - Most of the elite running teams in the league utilized a multi-back system, while we ran Portis into the ground. Zorn had weapons in the backfield, but decided not to use them (Betts and Cartwright). He failed to use them in the passing game as well, while teams like the Dolphins, Chargers and Falcons screen passed their way up and down the field. Who needs receivers when you have TEs and RBs?

3) The O line - If it was so awful it couldn't even block against the ferocious defenses of the Bengals and 49ers, then scheme to compensate for it. Roll Campbell out, run some gadget plays, go no-huddle, practice sceen plays to the RBs until you're great at it, run some QB draws, go Wildcat... do whatever it takes to overcome the weakness and be productive on offense.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

The ones you mention didn't do too bad in their first HC jobs either. Coughlin with Jacksonville, Dungy with Tampa Bay and Gruden with Oakland. Not to continue the disagreement, but Williams didn't come close to what these others did in his first HC job.

Even Bill Bellichick got fired by the Browns.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Tell me about it. I am a die hard Redskins fan. I want Zorn to be the best HC the Redskins have ever had.
I also would have liked to have seen GW and Saunders given a fair chance as well when Gibbs left. They have very good football minds. There are several coaches that found the promise land on their second HC jobs like Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden to name a few. GWilliams is not a bad coach.

Should've, could've, would've...it's all now water under the bridge. The way I see it with Zorn, he survived a brutal beginning of the season, but the offense fizzled out b/c of injuries and age in the second half...and the defense could not carry the team anymore. Zorn also inherited a team that has made some terrible offseason decisions regarding trades, free agency, and contracts in the past (and it is still feeling the effects). Right now, this is the team he inherited.

I'm sick of the Atlanta and Miami comparisons. Those teams have not made the bad decisions in the offseasons that we have had. They've had good offensive lines that protected their QB (both finish in the top team of least sacks allowed). And had an experienced coaching staff (coordinators and assistants) that I don't think the Redskins had. Atlanta (like Baltimore) won the lottery with their QB, and got a good free agent running back (another proof that their o-line was very good). Miami had some good veteran players (i.e. Ronnie Brown) and drafted very well (offensive and defensive lineman) last year; also they got lucky that Chad Pennington's arm didn't fall off.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by 44ever

8-8 is a good start for a rookie HC and a team with little depth. I think Zorn did pretty good with what he had left towards the end of the season. It's almost like people want to hate him before he even gets a chance to install his system (coaches, players, playcall, ect...) I don't get it. One one hand we say he shouldn't be HC with no HC experience. And then we compare him to rookie coaches in Atlanta and Miami???

Install his offense? Baltimore, new HC, new QB, new offense...ummm their in the play offs.

Miami, new HC, new QB to the system, new offense....ummm they made it to the play offs.

Atlanta, new HC, new QB, new offense....ummm they made it to the play offs.

Install his coaches? His coaches were half picked for him and I get the feeling that's not going to change. It would be nice to see him bring in some more WCO coaches to help him but I honestly am beggining to think the front office, Snyder, Cerratto, and Zorn are thinking status quo.

We might see some new players....if were lucky. Maybe we should start with Thomas, Kelly, and Davis. Gotta start somewhere.

Install playcalling? I thought Zorn did that? I agree the team needs to know it backwards and forwards so JC can change the play at the line if need be.

I don't know if he should be a HC or not...you know how they say you get like a 300 for simply putting your name on the SAT correctly.....well Zorn took a decent team whether border line play off or not ...the team itself should have been able to go 8-8 even with out a coach. As to comparing and whether its fair....totally fair. Zorn was thrown into a HC position from QB coach. All the rest were Coordinators on teams prior to taking HC positions. This shows exactly what everyone is saying when they say he may have taken on too much all by himself and not having a proven NFL OC to back him up or assist along with only having half a staff that knows the WCO.

If Snyder, Cerratto and Zorn can finally figure all that out then maybe, just maybe next year we will be a better team.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Even Bill Bellichick got fired by the Browns.

There is always an exception to the rule. But there is just as much a chance that Williams will never be a good HC as there is that he will. I'm not saying he never will be. I just don't follow those who seem so sure he will be. His record doesn't support it. Bellichick also led Cleveland to their last playoff win in 91. So he had some success there. Every coach that gets fired is not a bad coach. But I would say their records speak louder than if they were fired or not.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Install his offense? Baltimore, new HC, new QB, new offense...ummm their in the play offs.

Miami, new HC, new QB to the system, new offense....ummm they made it to the play offs.

Atlanta, new HC, new QB, new offense....ummm they made it to the play offs.

Install his coaches? His coaches were half picked for him and I get the feeling that's not going to change. It would be nice to see him bring in some more WCO coaches to help him but I honestly am beggining to think the front office, Snyder, Cerratto, and Zorn are thinking status quo.

We might see some new players....if were lucky. Maybe we should start with Thomas, Kelly, and Davis. Gotta start somewhere.

Install playcalling? I thought Zorn did that? I agree the team needs to know it backwards and forwards so JC can change the play at the line if need be.

I don't know if he should be a HC or not...you know how they say you get like a 300 for simply putting your name on the SAT correctly.....well Zorn took a decent team whether border line play off or not ...the team itself should have been able to go 8-8 even with out a coach. As to comparing and whether its fair....totally fair. Zorn was thrown into a HC position from QB coach. All the rest were Coordinators on teams prior to taking HC positions. This shows exactly what everyone is saying when they say he may have taken on too much all by himself and not having a proven NFL OC to back him up or assist along with only having half a staff that knows the WCO.

If Snyder, Cerratto and Zorn can finally figure all that out then maybe, just maybe next year we will be a better team.

Really? It only went 9-7 last year with a HOF headcoach. I guess Gibbs was good for one win?

[44ever]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Install his offense? Baltimore, new HC, new QB, new offense...ummm their in the play offs.

Miami, new HC, new QB to the system, new offense....ummm they made it to the play offs.

Atlanta, new HC, new QB, new offense....ummm they made it to the play offs.

Install his coaches? His coaches were half picked for him and I get the feeling that's not going to change. It would be nice to see him bring in some more WCO coaches to help him but I honestly am beggining to think the front office, Snyder, Cerratto, and Zorn are thinking status quo.

We might see some new players....if were lucky. Maybe we should start with Thomas, Kelly, and Davis. Gotta start somewhere.

Install playcalling? I thought Zorn did that? I agree the team needs to know it backwards and forwards so JC can change the play at the line if need be.

I don't know if he should be a HC or not...you know how they say you get like a 300 for simply putting your name on the SAT correctly.....well Zorn took a decent team whether border line play off or not ...the team itself should have been able to go 8-8 even with out a coach. As to comparing and whether its fair....totally fair. Zorn was thrown into a HC position from QB coach. All the rest were Coordinators on teams prior to taking HC positions. This shows exactly what everyone is saying when they say he may have taken on too much all by himself and not having a proven NFL OC to back him up or assist along with only having half a staff that knows the WCO.

If Snyder, Cerratto and Zorn can finally figure all that out then maybe, just maybe next year we will be a better team.

Look brother your frustrated. And so am I. I guess I'm just looking at things a little differently. Mabye with a little more optimism. What's that going to do come end of next season. If things don't work out it's probably going to change. And if they do change, change to what? But in the end there will be disapointments. Whats going to happen when we finally have a great defense and Portis breaks down. We're Skins fans. What else is new! But I'm optimistic for what it's worth.

[SBXVII]

Don't get me wrong 44, I'm optomistic....I hope for the best but plan for the worst.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

And I guess since all the teams that have hired a coach so far passed on him, maybe we made the right choice in hiring Zorn? I think so.

When I first read you're post nothing struck me but then I started to wonder what HC jobs Williams applied for since he left Washington? Anybody know?