Updated: Discuss our Backup QB Situation (formerly Byron Leftwich)

[Trample the Elderly]

My thinking when I started the thread was that we could bring in Leftwich to compete for 2nd with Collins, but I'm glad y'all ran with it. I like Collins but I just don't think he has as many years left in the tank.
If they do let JC go, if he should go down, or should he suck next year, then at least we have at lthe very least a starter with some youth ready to go and Colt.
Z is indicating that he doesn't think Colt is ready? So if Campbell is let go what options are there left beside FA? (an older QB who doesn't take many snaps, or a young player who has never started in the NFL?)
In my scenario if they let JC go you've got Byron and Colt sitting there waiting to get his spot and both of them have a future in the NFL. Then they can draft another QB in 2011. I wouldn't mind seeing Collins in there but I was just thinking of the future.

[T.O.Killa]

I have always liked Byron Leftwich. I never understood how he lost his job and has not got a chance since. I looked at my brother during the Pittsburg game when he cam in and said this is worse for us than Rothlisberger playing. Byron, then proceeded to whip are ass. I would love to see what Zorn could do with him.

[GusFrerotte]

Leftwich? Come one now!!!!!! The guy is a backup at best anymore, but he probably will end up being JC's replacement. Unless we have an above .500 year and playoffs, JC is not going to be resigned. His asking price is going to be too high for a team that has an age problem and depth problems to boot. Get Leftwich cheap and draft a QB in 2010. If the price is high for Leftwich, leave him alone.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Madden's just hyping a pre-season game, Clinton Portis has zero credibility in evaluating a QB prospect, Zorn used a 6th round pick on a project QB. Didn't Gibbs take Jordan Palmer with a 5th, where is Palmer now.

You may want to fully read the wiki on Chang again. The comparison is far from insulting. Both played for U of Hawaii in the June Jones offensive system, which creates Passing Stat monsters. Chang still holds several NCAA passing records (INTs, Offensive yards, Career Passing, and is third in total TDs). Chang was on NFL rosters for two years before being out (probably the same for CB) and picking up with the CFL. Chang is 6' 1", CB is 6' 3", those two inches make a difference if both were strictly pocket passers, but Chang is/was much more mobile than CB.

Also it doesn't matter where someone is slated to go in a mock draft, it's where they actually go that matters. Talking heads do mock drafts, guys on the Internet do mock drafts, NFL personnel folks actually draft. 31 other teams didn't see fit to take Brennan ahead of where he went. So 31 other sets of NFL personnel folks didn't see too much in him either. The WCO is not a fit for a QB with a poor release, below-average to weak NFL arm, that appears to makes some poor decisions on the NFL level.

So Campbell improving yearly and increasing his performance from '07 to '08 with an inferior OL "proves" he isn't the guy for our system. The jury may still be out but the indicators appear to be that JC will be a solid, but not superstar, NFL QB.

I disagree with your statements because IMO they're wrong and you have no evidence or stats to show you're right. My stats (improved QB rating, only 6 INTs, 62% completions) favor my position over yours. I watched JC play and I have a completely different impression than you. You are taking the typical fan route, something's wrong, blame the QB. Maybe the protection broke down, maybe the sub 5'10" receivers weren't open, maybe JC's been coached to not make an overly aggressive play resulting in a turn-over. If you believe Jim Zorn is such a great QB evaluator that he "saw something" in CB, doesn't it make sense that if JC was "locking on" to receivers and was a "slow decision maker" that Zorn would've mentioned this (he is pretty forthcoming) or he would've went to Collins, or the Skins would be actively shopping JC for picks?

I don't remember seeing too many on this site making the comments about "slow decision making" & "locking on" when the Skins were 6-2.

In the Coryell / Gibbs type system you must be an accurate downfield passer, from what we have seen out of JC, that isn't his strong-suit.

Jordan Palmer was taken as the best available in one of the worst Skins drafts in recent history. Brennan did set NCAA records, while Palmer's claim to fame is being Carson's little brother. And let's face it, Gibbs II was a rather mediocre run at best.

[gaudiomatt]

Did anyone watch Campbell play football in college? Did anyone watch Leftwich play football in college. Leftwich was selected 5 overall because he was incredibly talented and productive. Campbell was selected with the 25 pick because he was on a 12 - 0 team, Is tall, fast and has a huge arm. Campbell was seen as being an NFL prototypical QB. And most importantly Gibbs liked him, because he is a good southern character guy who is very christian and Gibbs favorite thing, can throw the deep ball. But if you actually watch Campbell's college games he's a fing mess. He had Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams to carry the team, had fantastic receivers and is carried by the rest of the team save his arm. He has no idea how the hell to play QB if he has to throw for less than 20 yards, the only pass he can make is to a checkdown receiver or too a guy that is running an out route who has a minimal step on somebody. He's done this third and long check down to betts his entire career, just it worked in college because his running backs were so good. And unfortunately he doesn't connect on any long balls in the NFL as we can tell considering I can remember the only one that happened this season. And for those who say Moss isn't a deep ball threat, he had more 40+ yard catches then any receiver in the league over the past 5 years. And the one year with Brunnell he was 2nd in the league in yards Moss ain't the problem. Campbell is, he's a terrible quarterback, he's a combine guy who doesn't have the production just potential. If you want terrible and inconsitent passing game that needs to be bailed out by long balls when we are not a deep threat team we should keep Campbell. Otherwise I would gladly take Collins, Brennan, or Leftwich.

[gaudiomatt]

He's also not a scrambling QB, he fumbles constantly when he scrambles that's why he doesn't scramble even though he's athletic enough to be one. He also doesn't mind his surroundings in the pocket when he's looking downfield in the pocket, he chooses to either be minding his surroundings or scanning downfield, thats why he gets sacked so much or misses so many open receivers once he moves out of the pocket.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Jordan Palmer was taken as the best available in one of the worst Skins drafts in recent history. Brennan did set NCAA records, while Palmer's claim to fame is being Carson's little brother. And let's face it, Gibbs II was a rather mediocre run at best.

If thats true then that was a HUGE mistake that ended up costing us more then most people realize. It was during that draft where Ben Patrick (TE Deleware), a guy projected as a 3rd rounder by Mayock was available when we picked Palmer. Now one year later we got a Tight End that can barely get on the field while Patrick is catching TD's and two point conversions in the playoffs for the Cardinals.

Maybe that was just Gibbs picking his guys but I doubt Palmer was the best player available even by the standards in which our front office evaluates players.

[SBXVII]

Implications are simple....you don't pay a second string QB (who was drafted to your franchise QB) the type of money you have invested in a starter.


Ever hear of Mark Brunell?

Why in the world would the Skins want BL? He's too old.

LOL, this is too much fun, ....Mark Brunell. ....

It's been said a couple of times in past years that Leftwich would love to come home to the Redskins (I saw a link the other day somewhere as well)


Only because this is his home town. He wants to be back close to family.

[SBXVII]

Did anyone watch Campbell play football in college? Did anyone watch Leftwich play football in college. Leftwich was selected 5 overall because he was incredibly talented and productive

Yeah......well BL has played a few yrs in the league and has had his fair share of injuries and has slowed a step as well as not being able to make all the throws as well as he used to. You want another Brunell go right ahead and bring him in. People talk about getting younger and having healthy players and now people are talking BL.

When he was "Let go" by Jacksonville didn't he play for another team? and get "Let go"?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If we shop Campbell, how are other teams supposed to value him? We don't have a QB on our roster who can handle the position currently, so we would be right back in the free agent market (Where Leftwich is as good a solution as any). If it's a sellers market, and no buyers are willing to throw in more than a second rounder, I'd tell them to get lost.

The undertone to your argument is that Campbell's eventual failure in Zorn's offense is inevitable, but you haven't defended that with anything but hearsay and speculation. Lots of people on this fourm (myself included) do disagree with the premise that you have presented, citing measurable evidence such as improved QB rating and pass efficiency in 2008. While it's theoretically possible that you are right, the "lots of people will disagree with me" angle just isn't all that convincing.

Your proposal is another 2nd round pick in trade for a ton of unnecessary offensive turnover, at the most fundamental positions on the team plus tons of unquantifiable scouting uncertainties that come with the change. Is it worth it? Maybe, but it seems like a lot of accounting work just to prove we might be able to break even.

------------

P.S. Past work I've done on this fourm and on my blog has estimated (roughly) that the average expectation for a 2nd round pick is somewhere between 2-3 wins (over replacement) over the life of a rookie contract. That's roughly Campbell's 2008 value alone, depending on whose metrics you deal with.

While a rough analysis is certainly not a be all end all, it's a tough, tough mountain to climb to prove that making Byron Leftwich the Skins starting QB right now is the best move for the Washington Redskins.

Got to tell you GT i think a lot of times your posts shed light on our discussions around here. Way too many Skins fans somehow ignore the significant improvement JC made from '07 to '08 within the context of a brand new system to boot. His footwork got better, his control of the ball to avoid fumbles was drastically improved and he began to make quicker decisions (especially moving the ball with his own two legs). There is no logical reasoning that says he won't make strides again this year and even in the things we know are weaknesses, like delivery time and accuracy (bigger targets are going to help that IMO). Bottom line is it strikes me as ABSURD to write the kid off when the consensus is it takes a couple years to get up to speed in the WCO and JC works his tail off to improve.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by gaudiomatt

He's also not a scrambling QB, he fumbles constantly when he scrambles that's why he doesn't scramble even though he's athletic enough to be one. He also doesn't mind his surroundings in the pocket when he's looking downfield in the pocket, he chooses to either be minding his surroundings or scanning downfield, thats why he gets sacked so much or misses so many open receivers once he moves out of the pocket.

Jeez man are you watching our games? He scrambled for 258 yards last season w/o a single fumble.

... and he got sacked so much because our line couldn't pass block against good defenses. Against Pitt, Baltimore, Dallas and NY defenders were breaking through the line before Jason had taken 2 steps back.

[sportscurmudgeon]

I am shocked - - SHOCKED - - that no one has looked carefully at this year's free agent QB list and seen THE ANSWER to the problem here.


Patrick Ramsey is a free agent. Think about it:


Former top pick of the Skins.

Had a better winning record after 15 games than either Brett Favre or Peyton Manning.

Knows the pressure of being the QB in Washington.

He's rested and ready.


I love it when a plan comes together. [/ The A-Team]

[SBXVII]

^Plus he already knows the WCO cause he played in Denver for so many yrs. lol.

[irish]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

He's already got a ring from Pittsburg. Why would he want to stay with them as a backup, making backup money, and know that he would never get the chance to start unless Big Ben got hurt?

He's still fairly young, is a free agent, and the redskins are the team he presumably grew up rooting for. If he felt he had a chance to come here, get starting money, and actually get to PLAY for the team he loves, why stay in pittsburg and sit on a bench the rest of his career?

There are only a few teams where BL could go and be a starter and the Skins are one of those teams for sure but in the big picture BL is a back up and if one is going to be a back up the Steelers arent a bad team to back up on.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Youre assuming that Campbells replacement is not already in-house... Brennan is going to be a baller someday.

I really hope the skins FO doesnt consider colt the answer if JC doesnt work out . . . a good showing in the second half of the first pre-season game plus a cool name doesnt give me any indication of what kind of qb he will become in the NFL.

i'd rather have JC who has shown he is a good, capable QB while we search for that true elite QB (which could take anywhere from a few years to never). . .we shouldnt stop looking for that Manning or Brady type QB (who could give us 6-10 years of real competitive ball) just b/c we have a solid starting QB and a 3rd string rookie half the fan base thinks will be a baller.

not sayin JC or colt cant become "ballers", just sayin until we have a legit elite qb, we shouldnt stop looking for him.

go skins!!