The Tempered Expectations Thread

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Let's just call it the debbie downer thread, lol, j/k

Seriously though, I'm in wait and see mode like a lot of folks. At face value though, this feels different to me than past moves. This is the first time we've seen Snyder step aside and completely hand off the football ops. There's no way either Allen or Shanahan would have agreed to come here unless they were 110% sure that Snyder will be playing the role of owner, and owner only. Snyder had established relationships with both guys coming in so I think there's a trust factor there and that's important to him.

I'm excited, Allen and Shanahan bring an element of credibility to the front office that we've been sorely lacking. I think we're finally seeing a move in a new direction for the organization. A move that will emphasis some proven and more traditional methods of putting together a winner, not this willy-nilly approach of going for the big names, trading away picks on a whim, and ignoring glaring needs until everything bottoms out.

Thats my thought completely. And you would have to be completely detached from reality if you weren't in some degree of wait and see mode, but as others have mentioned something just feels different this time and I suspect it has to do with a couple of things like Snyder getting his ass kicked in every way possible, and the whole out with the old in with the new approach as well as the sense of credibility factor. Snyder is by no means a stupid man, hes made stupid mistakes but hes not stupid and hes a brilliant business man. So if you factor in his passion for the Skins and his disgust for losing money I think he realized what he had to do.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Why should Snyder have involvement in determining the roster? If Snyder wants Chad Ochocinco, should he make Shanahan and Allen go out and get him? That's exactly the sort of behavior that has turned our franchise into a laughing stock.

We must have different opinions of the definition of "involved"

[firstdown]

Think all of this came about from some stupid truck with an $1,800 sign on the back of it.

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Think all of this came about from some stupid truck with an $1,800 sign on the back of it.

Funny!!

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

My personality is too similar to Spock's. I can't get too high and can't get too low. Dare I say I'm naturally... medium? I totally agree with you Scud. There are areas where Shanahan can make an immediate impact, but others will take much longer.

Immediate Impact:
- Discipline. Players will toe the line or lose their jobs.

- Respect in the locker room. He brings immediate leadership credibility, so those in the locker room who didn't respect Zorn will respect Shanahan.

- Turnovers on defense. The switch away from Blache's scheme to a defensive coordinator who favors a more attacking style should help the turnover situation. This is not a certainty, we don't know who the new DC is yet, so we don't know the scheme. But if it happens, it will happen this year.

Long Term Impact:
- Offensive line personnel. Our line is so shitty that it will take multiple player acquisitions before it's built the way he wants.

- QB development. It will take Campbell or a new rookie more than one year to get up to speed.

- Running game scheme. Offensive linemen will be shuffling in and out of here over the next two years. Installing the new scheme for the running game will take time as the new line gels.

In the NFL, you can put together a decent season just by playing disciplined and winning the turnover battle. So it's possible Shanahan turns in a 9-7 season in 2010. I'm definitely not hoping for any better than that until 2011 and beyond.

Schneed10:

Good points here...

If indeed Shanahan can deliver on the threat that players who don't toe the line lose their jobs -- even "special players" - - that will be a HUGE improvement for 2010.

If there are any players on the Skins' roster in 2009 who have to be convinced that Mike Shanahan has earned respect as a coach, those players are dumber than dirt. Respect for the head coach - - and by extension the other people on the staff - - will be a positive improvement in 2010.

I'll wait and see how much of a defensive change is coming until I see who the new defensive coaching staff is.


Agree it will take more than one year to rebuild the OL - - unless there is a Fairy Godmother out there who loves the Redskins.

Agree there will some turmoil at QB next year but I hope the coaching staff will have made a firm decision on who is going to be the team's QB going beyond 2010 by the end of 2010. At some point, the Skins need to have a stable situation at QB.


Improving from 4-12 is not exactly one of Hercules' Twelve Labors. I expect that record to be better in 2010 but I don't see any "worst-to-first" situations here.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm listening to the presser again and will repost verbatim.

It was Boswell who asked it and he said "The organizational structure you talked about here with you and Bruce sounded a little bit like what Joe Gibbs and Bobby Beathard had with Jack Kent Cooke offering a thought here and there. Are there similarities in that? Bobby and Joe had some good arm-wrestling matches with Jack arbitrating. Any similarities?"

[FRPLG]

Let's take at face value that he's realized he needs to back away and not be so involved with the team and players. I can definitely buy that. The question is whether he's made a real decision to change or whether this is his way of trying to appease fans. If he's really trying to change then will he be able to maintain the new approach and see it through to fruition or not? If it's just an appeasement then nothing will really change all that much in the long run and we're screwed.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Player_HTTR

On an nfl.com interview.(Cant link for another 15 posts) Shanny says toward the end I think, he has final say but will take the advice of others. He also states he had that power in Denver but never used it. It may be word games but at least Snyder as acknowledged his involvement has been a problem and at least is trying to create the perception he is backing off.

That is the crucial point. Is it just the perception that he's trying to change, or is he really making changes? Time will tell.

[Player_HTTR]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

That is the crucial point. Is it just the perception that he's trying to change, or is he really making changes? Time will tell.

At least he knows, and knowing is half the battle.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It was Boswell who asked it and he said "The organizational structure you talked about here with you and Bruce sounded a little bit like what Joe Gibbs and Bobby Beathard had with Jack Kent Cooke offering a thought here and there. Are there similarities in that? Bobby and Joe had some good arm-wrestling matches with Jack arbitrating. Any similarities?"

thanks for that. i had just edited my original post with the comments verbatim. had to listen to about 20 minutes of the interview over to get it! As I said in my edited post, Shanahan did a very good job of not answering the question that was asked, instead sharing a story about a conversation he had with Joe Bugel in the 80's and then talking about wanting to surround him self with the best players, coaches etc. For those of us who are skeptical, the lack of forthright and direct responses is concerning. I'd like to know exactly what Snyder's involvement is. There are things he should be involved in, as the team's owner. And there are things that Snyder should not be involved in if the organization is to become "functional" again.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Let's take at face value that he's realized he needs to back away and not be so involved with the team and players. I can definitely buy that. The question is whether he's made a real decision to change or whether this is his way of trying to appease fans. If he's really trying to change then will he be able to maintain the new approach and see it through to fruition or not? If it's just an appeasement then nothing will really change all that much in the long run and we're screwed.

I just keep coming back to the thought that Allen and Shanahan wouldn't be here if they weren't given the keys and told to run with it. Shanahan most of all. Reading up on him the last couple of days the guy is definitely a control freak, but he's also extremely bright. Mark Schlereth seems to think Shanahan has learned his lesson from Denver in regard to personnel and will lean more on Allen to help him out in that area.

"Absolutely, I think it's going to work. He's a great football coach. Mike Shanahan's a very intelligent guy. He will grind, he's a great football coach, but he's very smart and he understands why he's no longer the head coach of the Denver Broncos. It's because of the personnel decisions. He made personnel decisions both in the draft and also as far as free agency is concerned that didn't work out. So he understands that aspect of it. Mike Shanahan, there's no question in my mind -- a Hall of Fame caliber coach, just not a Hall of Fame personnel guy. So I think he will defer in a lot of those scenarios to his general manager. They will work as a team. But make no bones about it, he can flat coach a football team. He knows this game inside and out."

link: Mark Schlereth On The Shanahan Hire

Funny stuff about Schlereth here too

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I just keep coming back to the thought that Allen and Shanahan wouldn't be here if they weren't given the keys and told to run with it. Shanahan most of all. Reading up on him the last couple of days the guy is definitely a control freak, but he's also extremely bright. Mark Schlereth seems to think Shanahan has learned his lesson from Denver in regard to personnel and will lean more on Allen to help him out in that area.

Me too. Although I am skeptical of Snyder, Shanny simply would not be here unless something significant had changed.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

Paintrain:

Indeed the Redskins of the mid-90s were not very good. The John Kent Cooke years left a lot to be desired when compared to the Jack Kent Cooke years.

However, when Danny Boy bought the team in the midst of the 99 season, he bought a team that made the playoffs. The team was not great and was not destined to become a dynasty, but it was solid and won more games than it lost.

The next year, the Skins were over .500 when Danny Boy fired Norv Turner in the middle of the year and the issue that caused the flare-up was that Norv refused to put Jeff George in as the starting QB. Amazingly, when Terry Robiske took over as interim coach, he surveyed the scene and decided that Jeff George was just the guy to lead the Skins; how insightful of him.

Oh, that was the year that the recently acquired Deion Sanders talked about not knowing "Coach Rabinsky" very well. Lots of respect in that locker room for and from the new acquisitions to the team courtesy of the Boy Wonder.

Danny Boy is not nearly the worst owner in sports. But what he did in his first ten years of ownership here was to take a solid-but-hardly-great squad, tear it apart to add "marquee players" and put the fans in DC thru a decade of less than mediocre football.

The fact that the Redskins are the second highest grossing franchise in sports - - not sure if that is still true - - means exactly NOTHING regarding the product on the field.

[MTK]

Gibbs also gave Shanahan the ok saying that Snyder would step back. So Snyder has obviously taken a backseat before.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I just keep coming back to the thought that Allen and Shanahan wouldn't be here if they weren't given the keys and told to run with it. Shanahan most of all. Reading up on him the last couple of days the guy is definitely a control freak, but he's also extremely bright. Mark Schlereth seems to think Shanahan has learned his lesson from Denver in regard to personnel and will lean more on Allen to help him out in that area.

I think that's the thing some people are wondering about that, word "defer". There are those who do not seem to think Allen"s track record in the area where Shanahan may need help is any better than his. (hence the suggestion of still another piece being needed).

Here's hoping that Shanahan can pull off something that at least six other coaches have tried and failed at when it comes to winning super bowls with one team and being able to dupllicate it with another. Vince Lombardi, Dick Vermiel, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren and Joe Gibbs twice in the same city.