Obama directs NASA to Improve Relations with the Muslim World

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Nice try at spin, but no cigar. Esposito is wrong. Muslims who are motivated to terrorism are motivated by religious zealotry and extremism, nothing more, nothing less. NASA reaching out to help make Muslims "feel good" as a tool to "fight terrorism" is a HUGE reach.

Any Muslim who doesn't have extremist views and is one of the "best and brightest" in that region certainly doesn't need NASA or anyone else in the U.S. to tell him/her about Muslim contributions to math/science.

No spin. Esposito is a professor of Muslim studies who is recognized around the world as an expert on Islam. What makes you more of an expert on Islam than he is?

Your "spin" doesn't work. It begs the question of where that "religious zealotry" comes from. I've already provided one answer to that question.

Please try reading one of Esposito's books on Muslim extremism before you judge his books by their covers. Or try reading Rohan Gunaratna, who is considered perhaps the world's best scholar of al-Qaeda.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.

Good article here on NASA history with the USSR.

NASA - United States-Soviet Space Cooperation during the Cold War

But outreach to the USSR was never deemed by the head of NASA to be one of his top three priorities under Reagan. Any outreach was very low key and was only done if there was a direct benefit to the U.S.

To be blunt, folks who have issue with Bolden's statement understand there's no major funding for any Muslim outreach initiatives in the NASA budget. This is a PR blunder by Bolden and many feel it illustrates where Obama's philosophical priorities lie.

[saden1]

SS33, you're toiling on top of the toilet bowl. You missed a spot.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.

In terms of a specific outreach to Muslims, Muslims invented the concept of zero in operative mathematics (that is, not just a placeholder). The Maya did too, independently, but Western mathematics got the concept of zero from Muslim mathematicians. Muslims also developed algebra. Given that a motivation for terrorism arises from a felt loss of heritage (read the books of Georgetown Univ.'s John Esposito if you don't believe me), helping Muslims feel good about their historical contributions to mathematics actually is a terror-fighting tool. Plus it helps us to recruit bright minds from places like Egypt, Jordan, etc., to contribute to space advancements.

Why not just give them a trophy for inventing zero like 10000 years ago. We do that with kids in sports now days so it must work.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually Reagan asked for NASA outreach to the Russians during the Cold War. The idea of mixing space exploration and diplomacy is not as weird as you make it sound.

In terms of a specific outreach to Muslims, Muslims invented the concept of zero in operative mathematics (that is, not just a placeholder). The Maya did too, independently, but Western mathematics got the concept of zero from Muslim mathematicians. Muslims also developed algebra. Given that a motivation for terrorism arises from a felt loss of heritage (read the books of Georgetown Univ.'s John Esposito if you don't believe me), helping Muslims feel good about their historical contributions to mathematics actually is a terror-fighting tool. Plus it helps us to recruit bright minds from places like Egypt, Jordan, etc., to contribute to space advancements.

While I am not much of a proponent of feel good nonsense for the sake of it, where nobody keeps score so nobody loses and....feels bad and the whole juice boxes for evereybody mentality, that is not the issue.
The issue is....Why is a space agency doing diplomatic work?
BTW, John Esposito has an opinion. The truth can be more elusive...

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Hog1

While I am not much of a proponent of feel good nonsense for the sake of it, where nobody keeps score so nobody loses and....feels bad and the whole juice boxes for evereybody mentality, that is not the issue.
The issue is....Why is a space agency doing diplomatic work?
BTW, John Esposito has an opinion. The truth can be more elusive...

I didn't give you a feel-good argument for the sake of it. I gave you an argument based on serious research. I even pointed out who some of the world-recognized experts on the issues are. In other words, I gave you an educated, reasoned argument.

As the old saying goes, "know thy enemy." While experts can be wrong, most of them are right more often. I'm going to learn from them.

[dmek25]

if your boss tells you to do something, do you do it? do you understand what happens if you don't? just ask the general what happens if you bad mouth your boss

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by dmek25

if your boss tells you to do something, do you do it? do you understand what happens if you don't? just ask the general what happens if you bad mouth your boss

Sooo, reading between the lines................it makes no sense to you either.....employer/employee hierarchy notwithstanding?

[firstdown]

Well sense Obama isn't closing Gitmo (another broken promise to his loyal followers) he could just have NASA work with the guys there. They could start with the basics of rocket building. Then work up to guiding a rocket with satellite systems (we know they have them because SS provided links). We could allow them to fire off a few testers over Israel because that would really make them like use.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well sense Obama isn't closing Gitmo (another broken promise to his loyal followers) he could just have NASA work with the guys there. They could start with the basics of rocket building. Then work up to guiding a rocket with satellite systems (we know they have them because SS provided links). We could allow them to fire off a few testers over Israel because that would really make them like use.

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises
119 kept
245 in the works
19 broken
pretty good ratio to me

[SmootSmack]

Saudi Aramco World : A Prince in Space

Eight Muslims in Space and Counting - IslamOnline.net - Health & Science

[dmek25]

and...
Obama said after the inauguration that he hoped to close Guantanamo within one year, and administration officials admit they won't make that deadline. During the campaign, Obama gave himself no such deadline, and we're judging him here on his campaign promises. He said he would close Guantanamo Bay, and concrete steps are being taken to do so. The promise remains In the Works.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

and...
Obama said after the inauguration that he hoped to close Guantanamo within one year, and administration officials admit they won't make that deadline. During the campaign, Obama gave himself no such deadline, and we're judging him here on his campaign promises. He said he would close Guantanamo Bay, and concrete steps are being taken to do so. The promise remains In the Works.

I still say in two years from now when we are getting geared up for elections Gitmo will still be open.

[firstdown]

Quote from article:

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Monday that NASA Administrator Charles Bolden must have misspoken when he told Al Jazeera last month that one of his top priorities is to reach out to Muslim countries.

"That was not his task and that's not the task of NASA," Gibbs said.

Bolden, though, said last month in the interview that it was President Obama who gave him that task. He made a similar claim in February.

The White House also backed up Bolden last week when his remarks first stirred controversy. A White House spokesman last Tuesday said Obama wants NASA to engage with the world's best scientists and that to meet that challenge, NASA must "partner with countries around the world like Russia and Japan, as well as collaboration with Israel and with many Muslim-majority countries."


Funny how now they are throwing him under the bus saying he must have misspoken after last week pretty much agreeing with what he said. I guess someone finally told them it was not the job of NASA. Go figure.