Joe Gibbs...YOU CAN'T BE F*@%ING CONSERVATIVE ALL THE TIME!!!!!

Redskins_P · 12-27-2004, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Hey, Redskins_P, we don't have said offensive line, therefore we shouldn't pretend we do! Not all teams run 3 times in that situation, many teams will throw a HIGH PERCENTAGE SHORT PASS! Something that's bound to get yards. Everyone going out would have had man coverage and I think a route to Cooley, Gardner, or McCants could have easily done the trick.

If we hand it back to our defense with 20 seconds and no timeouts, it's a much different ballgame.

Hey Daseal, since we don't have an offensive line, who was going to protect Ramsey when he throws that high percantage pass?

With our luck that pass would've been deflected then intercepted or Ramsey would've gotten sacked.

It all starts up front, and that's where we've been most inconsitent all year.

Daseal · 12-27-2004, 12:17 PM

The same line that let him complete 19 of 29. When given high percentage passes he completely nearly all of them. He didn't exactly need a lot of time to get it off. God forbid he get intercepted, we might have lost!

skinsguy · 12-27-2004, 12:24 PM

This loss has to be blamed on the defense this time. How do you stuff the Cowboys all game long only to let them march down the field in about a minute and score on a 30+ yard TD pass? I kept thinking...okay Skins all you have to do is two stop them on two more downs! Then all of a sudden..the bomb downfield! I was screaming at the television!

As for the playcalling in this situation, you can't run out the clock by passing the ball. I realize ineffective running isn't going to help much..but it does force the other team to burn timeouts. Incompletions stop the clock, and that is one thing you don't want to do in a situation of chewing up clock time...even if you do have a 3 and 15 or whatever. Even if we throw and get another first down, the Cowboys have at least one timeout left to stop the clock...and considering how fast it took them to score on us..we would have still left them with plenty of time to have scored.

Redskins_P · 12-27-2004, 12:28 PM

Skinsguy, when it's all said and done the defense did lose the game. BUT, this is the same defense that created 2 turnovers, and stopped the Cowboys 3 times before they gave up the touchdown. So, I blame the offense for not taking advantage of the turnovers and the special teams for fumbling that punt return.

Our defense is great, but you can't expect to win if you can only come with 10 points in a game.

Redskins_P · 12-27-2004, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

The same line that let him complete 19 of 29. When given high percentage passes he completely nearly all of them. He didn't exactly need a lot of time to get it off. God forbid he get intercepted, we might have lost!

To me it just seems like whatever we do, we still find a way to lose the game.

We had our opportunities, starting with the opening drive and marching all the way downfield to come with......nothing.

SmootSmack · 12-27-2004, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

To me it just seems like whatever we do, we still find a way to lose the game.

We had our opportunities, starting with the opening drive and marching all the way downfield to come with......nothing.

Yeah that INT at the Dallas 3 really came back to burn us at the end didn't it? Since it was early its importance seems diminished but it really shouldn't be

skinsguy · 12-27-2004, 12:35 PM

Well yeah...I mean like the opening drive where the Redskins marched down the field, only to have a freak interception off of a tipped pass. I'm just saying at the end, our defense lost the game for us...but the defense played great to keep us in the game this whole time. The eagles beat the Cowboys with only 12 points, and I believe 10 points would have been good enough to have beaten them, we just made a very big mistake at the end.

This has to stink more than any of the recent meetings between the two teams for the fact that we would have kept our playoff chances alive if we would have held on for a little more than a minute. I'm telling you, its the Daniel Synder curse!

Redskins_P · 12-27-2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Yeah that INT at the Dallas 3 really came back to burn us at the end didn't it? Since it was early its importance seems diminished but it really shouldn't be

Absolutely! That killed some of the early momentum that we had.

MTK · 12-27-2004, 01:00 PM

That opening drive INT really hurt, we should have at least got a FG out of it but to come away with nothing really hurts especially when points are so scarce with this offense. Tough to say who's fault it was, Kozlowski probably should have hauled it in but it was a tough ball, perhaps Ramsey had a bit too much heat on it.

Either way there were many key plays throughout the game, blaming it all on the playcalling at the very end is a narrow view.

Give me any coach in a similar situation and 99% of the time that coach will do the same thing Gibbs tried to do, run the ball and more importantly make the other team burn their timeouts. If you throw an incompletion the clock stops and they save a timeout in the process. Punt the ball away and leave it up to your 2nd ranked defense to close out the game, that's called playing to your strengths. It may not be sexy but it's what wins football games the majority of the time.

cpayne5 · 12-27-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Master plan? Please, elaborate.

Unlike everyone else, I don't think Gibbs expected to come in and turn the franchise around in one year. I believe that he is trying to straighten out what 5 years of DS's meddling has done. Flash does not necessarily win in the NFL. Continuity and dominance in minute details of the game puts Ws on the board.

Look at the difference between now and this time last year. I supported Spurrier every day he was the head coach, but the difference is like night and day. The players didn't see the franchise going anywhere last year. The players have rallied around Gibbs.

No, Gibbs has not come back into the league and ripped it up. He has shown some rust, but to think that he doesn't have a plan or the know-how to right the ship is absurd.

Gmanc711 · 12-27-2004, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Give me any coach in a similar situation and 99% of the time that coach will do the same thing Gibbs tried to do, run the ball and more importantly make the other team burn their timeouts. If you throw an incompletion the clock stops and they save a timeout in the process. Punt the ball away and leave it up to your 2nd ranked defense to close out the game, that's called playing to your strengths. It may not be sexy but it's what wins football games the majority of the time.

I agree. You will find very VERY few teams in that siutation doing anything different.

Daseal · 12-27-2004, 02:06 PM

I think very few of us thought we'd be going to the Super Bowl this year, but we did expect improvement. The problem is not the record to me, it's how we've lost these games. Conservative playcalling, and those minute details you mentioned being over-looked. We are penelized just as much (although half our penelty yards are on bullshit PI calls against Smoot.)

DS's medeling? Jesus, he picked his guys one year, realized he made a mistake and has nothing but gone out and fetched whatever players his coaches have wanted! Joe Gibbs said himself that he couldn't ask anything more from Daniel Snyder. He's paying a losing coaching staff more than any other staff in the league, he's built them everything they've asked, gotten nearly every player we seek. DS has no blame in this, he's doing more than any other owner in the league to try to help his coaches win!

What do you mean the difference? The same record? Massive amounts of penelties? Questionable playcalling? It looks exactly the same only we have an awesome defense and a horrible defense as opposed to a mediocre offense and a horrible defense. The penelties, O line play, and receptions I expected to go up. I had high hopes, I admit, but I also realized there was a good chance they wouldn't come true.

I also agree that Gibbs is an amazing leader. These guys would follow him to their death I think. That takes something special, very special. No one can doubt his dedication or his ability to have the players rally around him. I do however question how long that will last. There's always an aura of hope and salvation around a new coach, which in DC seems to fade quickly. Being that it's a guy that won Super Bowls way back gives him more leeway than he deserves, in my opinion.

Cpayne: He's kept making the same mistakes. It's like the rat that keeps hitting the same red button and getting a jolt. The blue button is right there that dispenses food, but he can't seem to figure it out. Three runs up the middle is infuriating. At least try.

We need an offensive coordinator I feel completely. At least someone to replace Don Breax to give input. Someone who's been in the league for quite some time!

cpayne5 · 12-27-2004, 02:17 PM

The difference can be found in the morale of the team. Top to bottom.

DS's meddling comes in the form of change. I agree he is very willing, but he also promotes unnecessary change.

Do you think it's mistakes or protection? I think that the last thing he wants to do is ruin Patrick Ramsey's confidence at this point in his career. Again, it goes back to the continuity thing.

RedskinRat · 12-27-2004, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That opening drive INT really hurt, we should have at least got a FG out of it but to come away with nothing really hurts especially when points are so scarce with this offense. Tough to say who's fault it was, Kozlowski probably should have hauled it in but it was a tough ball, perhaps Ramsey had a bit too much heat on it.

I've watched it a couple of times and it appears that the ball caught Kozlowski by surprise, he didn't have his hands out to catch it, he almost had his hands against his shoulder pads, just our luck that the ball went to a defender instead of zinging out the back of the end zone. A lot of time chewed up for nothing.

I don't buy into curses or any of that stuff, we broke before they did. 2005 will be a different story. Can you imagine how different the team will be when Gibbs and Williams has them for an entire season, instead of having all the nonsense and distractions that they had this year?

Redskins_P · 12-27-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

I've watched it a couple of times and it appears that the ball caught Kozlowski by surprise, he didn't have his hands out to catch it, he almost had his hands against his shoulder pads, just our luck that the ball went to a defender instead of zinging out the back of the end zone.

Even though it caught him by surprise he still should've caught it. Like my old high school coach used to always tell me, "if you touched the ball you should've caught it"

I bet Cooley or Royal would've caught it.

12-27-2004, 02:17 PM	#73
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	The difference can be found in the morale of the team. Top to bottom. DS's meddling comes in the form of change. I agree he is very willing, but he also promotes unnecessary change. Do you think it's mistakes or protection? I think that the last thing he wants to do is ruin Patrick Ramsey's confidence at this point in his career. Again, it goes back to the continuity thing. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

12-27-2004, 12:17 PM	#62
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	The same line that let him complete 19 of 29. When given high percentage passes he completely nearly all of them. He didn't exactly need a lot of time to get it off. God forbid he get intercepted, we might have lost!

12-27-2004, 12:24 PM	#63
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	This loss has to be blamed on the defense this time. How do you stuff the Cowboys all game long only to let them march down the field in about a minute and score on a 30+ yard TD pass? I kept thinking...okay Skins all you have to do is two stop them on two more downs! Then all of a sudden..the bomb downfield! I was screaming at the television! As for the playcalling in this situation, you can't run out the clock by passing the ball. I realize ineffective running isn't going to help much..but it does force the other team to burn timeouts. Incompletions stop the clock, and that is one thing you don't want to do in a situation of chewing up clock time...even if you do have a 3 and 15 or whatever. Even if we throw and get another first down, the Cowboys have at least one timeout left to stop the clock...and considering how fast it took them to score on us..we would have still left them with plenty of time to have scored.

12-27-2004, 12:28 PM	#64
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 46 Posts: 4,101	Skinsguy, when it's all said and done the defense did lose the game. BUT, this is the same defense that created 2 turnovers, and stopped the Cowboys 3 times before they gave up the touchdown. So, I blame the offense for not taking advantage of the turnovers and the special teams for fumbling that punt return. Our defense is great, but you can't expect to win if you can only come with 10 points in a game.

12-27-2004, 12:35 PM	#67
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Well yeah...I mean like the opening drive where the Redskins marched down the field, only to have a freak interception off of a tipped pass. I'm just saying at the end, our defense lost the game for us...but the defense played great to keep us in the game this whole time. The eagles beat the Cowboys with only 12 points, and I believe 10 points would have been good enough to have beaten them, we just made a very big mistake at the end. This has to stink more than any of the recent meetings between the two teams for the fact that we would have kept our playoff chances alive if we would have held on for a little more than a minute. I'm telling you, its the Daniel Synder curse!

12-27-2004, 01:00 PM	#69
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	That opening drive INT really hurt, we should have at least got a FG out of it but to come away with nothing really hurts especially when points are so scarce with this offense. Tough to say who's fault it was, Kozlowski probably should have hauled it in but it was a tough ball, perhaps Ramsey had a bit too much heat on it. Either way there were many key plays throughout the game, blaming it all on the playcalling at the very end is a narrow view. Give me any coach in a similar situation and 99% of the time that coach will do the same thing Gibbs tried to do, run the ball and more importantly make the other team burn their timeouts. If you throw an incompletion the clock stops and they save a timeout in the process. Punt the ball away and leave it up to your 2nd ranked defense to close out the game, that's called playing to your strengths. It may not be sexy but it's what wins football games the majority of the time.

12-27-2004, 02:06 PM	#72
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I think very few of us thought we'd be going to the Super Bowl this year, but we did expect improvement. The problem is not the record to me, it's how we've lost these games. Conservative playcalling, and those minute details you mentioned being over-looked. We are penelized just as much (although half our penelty yards are on bullshit PI calls against Smoot.) DS's medeling? Jesus, he picked his guys one year, realized he made a mistake and has nothing but gone out and fetched whatever players his coaches have wanted! Joe Gibbs said himself that he couldn't ask anything more from Daniel Snyder. He's paying a losing coaching staff more than any other staff in the league, he's built them everything they've asked, gotten nearly every player we seek. DS has no blame in this, he's doing more than any other owner in the league to try to help his coaches win! What do you mean the difference? The same record? Massive amounts of penelties? Questionable playcalling? It looks exactly the same only we have an awesome defense and a horrible defense as opposed to a mediocre offense and a horrible defense. The penelties, O line play, and receptions I expected to go up. I had high hopes, I admit, but I also realized there was a good chance they wouldn't come true. I also agree that Gibbs is an amazing leader. These guys would follow him to their death I think. That takes something special, very special. No one can doubt his dedication or his ability to have the players rally around him. I do however question how long that will last. There's always an aura of hope and salvation around a new coach, which in DC seems to fade quickly. Being that it's a guy that won Super Bowls way back gives him more leeway than he deserves, in my opinion. Cpayne: He's kept making the same mistakes. It's like the rat that keeps hitting the same red button and getting a jolt. The blue button is right there that dispenses food, but he can't seem to figure it out. Three runs up the middle is infuriating. At least try. We need an offensive coordinator I feel completely. At least someone to replace Don Breax to give input. Someone who's been in the league for quite some time!

Joe Gibbs...YOU CAN'T BE F*@%ING CONSERVATIVE ALL THE TIME!!!!!

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