Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts

TheMalcolmConnection · 04-07-2005, 02:39 PM

I do think that Taylor blew that coverage, but he also caused the fumble from Jones that would have been a sure touchdown.

TheMalcolmConnection · 04-07-2005, 02:39 PM

So I think they offset each other.

sportscurmudgeon · 04-07-2005, 02:56 PM

CooleyAsCanBe:

Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games.

Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.

Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one.

That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened...

CooleyAsCanBe · 04-07-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

CooleyAsCanBe:

Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games.

Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.

Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one.

That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened...

SC, your logic is confusing. Are you saying that Ramsey's late interception and overall poor play for the first three quarters wasn't what cost us the Eagles game? Placing all the blame on one failed tackle or one blown coverage is flawed. Saying someone cost us that game should mean at least that, in addition to one late play, their entire performance balanced out to be negative and tipped the scales. My whole point in the first post wasn't that Taylor had game-winning plays, but that he was a positive factor on the team, outweighing his off-field antics.

MalcomConnection has pointed out Taylor's strip that stopped another touchdown against Dallas. By your own logic, Taylor "singlehandedly" won any game in which he had a touchdown saving tackle or interception and the final score was decided by less than a touchdown. The Chicago game by making the final interception, or the Vikings game by stopping Moss' deep catch down the middle (granted, he also cost us a touchdown in that game-a perfect example of why your all or nothing logic doesn’t hold water).

I'm not saying he is perfect, but blaming his missed tackle for us losing in the Eagles game is weak reasoning.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 04-07-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

CooleyAsCanBe:

Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games.

Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one.

Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one.

That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened...

Dude was a rookie. I know you think we should have All-Pros at every position and one or two bad plays is enough to stone a guy to death Taliban-style, but ease up on the guy. He had less than 10 games experience in the NFL, was 21, and made lots of plays for us.

CooleyAsCanBe · 04-07-2005, 02:50 PM

I guess it is arguable that he cost us that game. His other interceptions in games against San Fran and Chicago were enough to offset that.

CooleyAsCanBe · 04-07-2005, 02:52 PM

In the end, I think we are all being blinded by the boredom of the offseason. Matty is right, these are "voluntary" workouts.

How many of you wish Gibbs had kicked Riggins off the team for all the crap he did? Granted, Riggo was a veteran and had proven himself more than Taylor has, but read this quote from the old Bill Simmons article on the Hogs and tell me Taylor is worse: (http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/simmons/020314.html)

"Just the mere mention of [Riggins] prompted four or five quick anecdotes. Remember the time Riggo hitchhiked to the NFC Championship Game and the coaches inadvertently picked him up? Remember the time Riggo pulled five chairs together, stretched out on them and took a nap during a team meeting? Remember the time Riggo retired and lived in a pup tent on the Potomac River for an entire winter?

Maybe the defining Riggo story: During one team meeting, the players heard a strange noise from inside the locker room, like the sound you hear when it just starts to pour rain. They glanced in the back and there was a groggy Riggins, lying on his back, his pants pulled down, peeing straight into the air all over himself. Gibbs and the poor coaching staff always looked the other way with Riggo, as long as he was coherent on Sundays, but this seemed a little much ... and yet the coaching staff never did anything. 'They always looked the other way with him,' said May. 'It just wasn't Gibbs's nature to constantly battle with a player like that.'"

He was often out of shape, missed or fell asleep in meetings and couldn't have been a great support in the locker room when all this was happening. Yet, he did well on the field. Gibbs turned a blind eye to all that, and I don't see this being nearly as bad.

P.S. I'm sure most of you read that article, but if you haven't, it is amazing.

irish · 04-07-2005, 03:07 PM

I think the difference is that Riggo performed on the field and played best in the biggest games. None of these guys has done anything on the field. When they finally do something/anything that comes remotely close to winning then they can goof off.

irish · 04-07-2005, 02:54 PM

Matty, the Redskins & their fans wish they had the "problems" NE has.

TheMalcolmConnection · 04-07-2005, 03:02 PM

Like I said before, he prevented a touchdown by stripping Jones which the Redskins recovered in the second Dallas game. He DID also give up that last touchdown. I would say it's a push in that situation.

In the end, I hate to go and blame particular players for losses. Our offense was really to blame for the woes of 2004.

Balmerskinsfan · 04-07-2005, 03:21 PM

Yeah, ST is the only rookie safety who has ever made mistakes and blown coverages. Every other rook DB in the history of the league has been the effing MAN immediately, except ST.
Come one, every rookie DB who starts gets worked by somebody, but Talyor is a beast. He's going to awesome, a bigger faster version of Troy Pomalu (I fofgert how to spell his name) up in Pittsburg. He also had a shaky rookie season, but was solid last year. Taylor will be fine. Moss is a dumbass, all talk, no production, a mini-Keyshawn.

sportscurmudgeon · 04-07-2005, 03:28 PM

Balmerskinsfan:

Polamalu (sp?) was a key contributor on a defense that took a team to a 15-1 record in his 2nd season after he didn't start for most of the first season. He got some All-Pro votes as I recall, too.

So, are you calling for ST to do the same thing? That would be nice. But it ain't gonna happen... LIke I said, if you love him as a "beast" then you will have to love his beastly behaviors. And you'll have to find ways to convince yourself that his "mental errors" aren't so debilitating because you love to see him make a really big hit.

Frankly, I prefer results. You can be a huge hitter AND play smart and winning football. See Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, Jack Tatum, NIght Train Lane, Lem Barney, Ken Houston and a hundred or so of the really good linebackers. Or you can play like Sean Taylor...

Balmerskinsfan · 04-07-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Balmerskinsfan:

Polamalu (sp?) was a key contributor on a defense that took a team to a 15-1 record in his 2nd season after he didn't start for most of the first season. He got some All-Pro votes as I recall, too.

So, are you calling for ST to do the same thing? That would be nice. But it ain't gonna happen... LIke I said, if you love him as a "beast" then you will have to love his beastly behaviors. And you'll have to find ways to convince yourself that his "mental errors" aren't so debilitating because you love to see him make a really big hit.

Frankly, I prefer results. You can be a huge hitter AND play smart and winning football. See Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, Jack Tatum, NIght Train Lane, Lem Barney, Ken Houston and a hundred or so of the really good linebackers. Or you can play like Sean Taylor...

Curmudgeon- Taylor was, I repeat, a ROOKIE. I recall Fred Smoot making some really stupid plays in his early years- remember when all he did was talk smack and get burned on late throws? Give Taylor some time before you start beating on him. Besides, if you really want to smear a Skins DB, there's always Ade Jimoh to kick around.

Monksdown · 04-07-2005, 04:40 PM

We have a very active, and proud Ade Jimoh fan club. Please refrain from commenting negatively on our soon to be hero. Thanks.

TheMalcolmConnection · 04-07-2005, 03:23 PM

I'm not going to pass complete judgement on Moss just yet. I'm just disappointed.

04-07-2005, 02:39 PM	#1
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts I do think that Taylor blew that coverage, but he also caused the fumble from Jones that would have been a sure touchdown. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

04-07-2005, 02:39 PM	#2
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts So I think they offset each other. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

04-07-2005, 02:50 PM	#6
CooleyAsCanBe Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fairfax, VA Age: 49 Posts: 421	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts I guess it is arguable that he cost us that game. His other interceptions in games against San Fran and Chicago were enough to offset that.

04-07-2005, 02:52 PM	#7
CooleyAsCanBe Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fairfax, VA Age: 49 Posts: 421	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts In the end, I think we are all being blinded by the boredom of the offseason. Matty is right, these are "voluntary" workouts. How many of you wish Gibbs had kicked Riggins off the team for all the crap he did? Granted, Riggo was a veteran and had proven himself more than Taylor has, but read this quote from the old Bill Simmons article on the Hogs and tell me Taylor is worse: (http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/simmons/020314.html) "Just the mere mention of [Riggins] prompted four or five quick anecdotes. Remember the time Riggo hitchhiked to the NFC Championship Game and the coaches inadvertently picked him up? Remember the time Riggo pulled five chairs together, stretched out on them and took a nap during a team meeting? Remember the time Riggo retired and lived in a pup tent on the Potomac River for an entire winter? Maybe the defining Riggo story: During one team meeting, the players heard a strange noise from inside the locker room, like the sound you hear when it just starts to pour rain. They glanced in the back and there was a groggy Riggins, lying on his back, his pants pulled down, peeing straight into the air all over himself. Gibbs and the poor coaching staff always looked the other way with Riggo, as long as he was coherent on Sundays, but this seemed a little much ... and yet the coaching staff never did anything. 'They always looked the other way with him,' said May. 'It just wasn't Gibbs's nature to constantly battle with a player like that.'" He was often out of shape, missed or fell asleep in meetings and couldn't have been a great support in the locker room when all this was happening. Yet, he did well on the field. Gibbs turned a blind eye to all that, and I don't see this being nearly as bad. P.S. I'm sure most of you read that article, but if you haven't, it is amazing.

04-07-2005, 03:07 PM	#8
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts I think the difference is that Riggo performed on the field and played best in the biggest games. None of these guys has done anything on the field. When they finally do something/anything that comes remotely close to winning then they can goof off.

04-07-2005, 02:56 PM	#3
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts CooleyAsCanBe: Go dig out your video tapes from last year's games. Now, check out Dallas II. Who is the guy playing safety in a deep cover-2 in the final minute whose job it is not to let anyone behind him? HInt: He wears #36. He gets lured into watching the backfield and doesn't get to double the WR deep when Springs thinks he has deep help. Result: Winning TD. This is with less than a minute to play and the Cowboys in their own territory and out of timeouts and needing a TD. Hard to blame anyone else for that one. Now go and check out Eagles night game. Taylor's man catches a pass at the 1 yard line for a first down - sorry I don't recall if was the TE or Westbrook. Next play is a handoff to Dorsey Levens who gets hit at the line of scrimmage by some guy wearing #36. But #36 forgets to wrap up and Levens manages to survive that "beastly hit" and score a TD. That was the difference in the game. Clean hit by #36 with lots of ferocity, but the result was "TD - Not Washington Redskins" - apologies to Frank Herzog for that one. That is just from memory so when you do your film review from 2004, maybe you can show me where he singlehandedly won a game for the Skins. I must have been napping when that happened... __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

04-07-2005, 02:54 PM	#9
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts Matty, the Redskins & their fans wish they had the "problems" NE has.

04-07-2005, 03:02 PM	#10
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts Like I said before, he prevented a touchdown by stripping Jones which the Redskins recovered in the second Dallas game. He DID also give up that last touchdown. I would say it's a push in that situation. In the end, I hate to go and blame particular players for losses. Our offense was really to blame for the woes of 2004. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

04-07-2005, 03:21 PM	#11
Balmerskinsfan Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 66	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts Yeah, ST is the only rookie safety who has ever made mistakes and blown coverages. Every other rook DB in the history of the league has been the effing MAN immediately, except ST. Come one, every rookie DB who starts gets worked by somebody, but Talyor is a beast. He's going to awesome, a bigger faster version of Troy Pomalu (I fofgert how to spell his name) up in Pittsburg. He also had a shaky rookie season, but was solid last year. Taylor will be fine. Moss is a dumbass, all talk, no production, a mini-Keyshawn.

04-07-2005, 03:28 PM	#12
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts Balmerskinsfan: Polamalu (sp?) was a key contributor on a defense that took a team to a 15-1 record in his 2nd season after he didn't start for most of the first season. He got some All-Pro votes as I recall, too. So, are you calling for ST to do the same thing? That would be nice. But it ain't gonna happen... LIke I said, if you love him as a "beast" then you will have to love his beastly behaviors. And you'll have to find ways to convince yourself that his "mental errors" aren't so debilitating because you love to see him make a really big hit. Frankly, I prefer results. You can be a huge hitter AND play smart and winning football. See Ronnie Lott, Brian Dawkins, Jack Tatum, NIght Train Lane, Lem Barney, Ken Houston and a hundred or so of the really good linebackers. Or you can play like Sean Taylor... __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

04-07-2005, 04:40 PM	#14
Monksdown The Starter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Warrenton, Virginia Age: 45 Posts: 1,515	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts We have a very active, and proud Ade Jimoh fan club. Please refrain from commenting negatively on our soon to be hero. Thanks.

04-07-2005, 03:23 PM	#15
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts I'm not going to pass complete judgement on Moss just yet. I'm just disappointed. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

Taylor, Moss Miss Redskins Workouts

Locker Room Main Forum