Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread

celts32 · 09-12-2005, 02:30 PM

I am torn. I think Brunell gives the team a better chance to win in Dallas, but I also don't think Ramsey did enough to lose the starting job in a little over a quarter of football...

That said, I think I would start brunell...it's about wins and losses in pro football not about whats fair to Pat...

TheMalcolmConnection · 09-12-2005, 02:34 PM

I'm torn also. I think that Dallas's defense is VERY easy to beat. Brunell thus far, has shown he is extremely accurate with short and intermediate passes while Ramsey can hit the deep ball or at least draw some PI calls. Basically, it's a pick your poison type of choice. I think that as long as we keep the turnovers down, we have a very good shot at this game.

As Gibbs has stressed time and time again, turnovers are the key. Score minus turnovers/bonehead (or BS) penalties: 16-0.

jermus22 · 09-12-2005, 02:55 PM

I'm surprised we're actually talking about a qb change this early.

jermus22 · 09-12-2005, 02:59 PM

IMO Gibbs should continue to let Ramsey start but keep him on a short leash. He did get decent yardage for only 1 1/2 quarters of play, but his interception and two fumbles are unacceptable (guess you can't blame him for the one since Briggs should've been called for a clothesline). If he can avoid turnovers and continue to move the offense effectively, he deserves to start. It would be rotten to demote the guy for getting injured. Brunell was decent, and I'm confident with him as a backup, but he didn't exactly put up a lot of points. If Ramsey falters badly in the next three games, then we should go to Brunell.

skinsfan0201 · 09-12-2005, 03:11 PM

True it is not what is completely fair to Pat (though Gibbs should keep his word). Though in addition, in response to who gives the Redskins the best chance to win, overall Pat has a better record than Brunell in that catagory over the past season.

DragoJT87 · 09-12-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm with you, I want Ramsey to play and be successful, but the proof is right there, he played 3 series and threw 1 INT and fumbled twice.

I really can't blame Gibbs if he doesn't have 100% confidence in him right now, how can you?

With this defense and running game, the last thing we need is the QB turning it over.

Like it or not, this is the kind of team we are, we're going to win by running the ball and playing hard nosed defense.

Perhaps Brunell is the exact kind of QB we need right now. I don't understand all the hate people still have for him. He played well in the preseason and he was efficient again today. Nothing spectacular, but he didn't turn it over and he converted on some key 3rd downs to keep drives moving.

I do like it. Unfortunately, so do 31 defenses in the NFL. So unless we plan to run the wing T like Navy, they are going to stop the run.

eppykid · 09-12-2005, 03:35 PM

Ramsey deserves the start if healthy. I'm not convinced that the receiver didn't partially cause his interception by going outside instead of in. In addition, Ramsey made some nice throws. His arm is much stronger than Brunell. He should be afforded more than a quarter of football prior to losing his job.

redrock-skins · 09-12-2005, 03:39 PM

Way too early for a QB controversy, especially when both are mediocre QBs anyway. Stick with Ramsey.

scowan · 09-12-2005, 04:17 PM

"He hurt his neck," Gibbs said. "For me, I personally felt like Mark got in there, looked pretty smooth and looked good. I felt like I could stay with Mark."

This quote from Redskins.com and Gibbs post game comments, tells me that Gibbs realized early in the game that it would be a low scoring "dog-fight" and he had seen enough out of Ramsey with the turnovers to keep him out of the game. Especially if the trainers were telling him Ramsey might be dizzy, had a concussion (my thoughts at the time) or whatever. My thoughts are that Ramsey will be benched this week. The team will say it is a precaution to his injury or whatever other excuse they want to use. It is sad because I think most of us here want so badly to see Ramsey succeed, but he is just not doing it. Or even separating himself from Brunell for that matter. It is a shame, because I think without Ramsey in against Dallas, we have no shot at winning next Monday. I can stomach a few of Ramsey's turnovers because our defense is so good. Brunell is just inept, and that is much harder for me to watch.

BrudLee · 09-12-2005, 04:22 PM

Here's the telling stat that gives a healthy Ramsey another start:

Mark Brunell yards per attempt: 5.00

Patrick Ramsey yards per attempt: 9.55

If stretching out the field is what you intend to do - and the acquisition of speed receivers coupled with a desire to run outside says that it is - you go with the guy that threatens to stretch the field, not with the guy who averages nearly half his yards.

That Guy · 09-12-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrudLee

Here's the telling stat that gives a healthy Ramsey another start:

Mark Brunell yards per attempt: 5.00

Patrick Ramsey yards per attempt: 9.55

If stretching out the field is what you intend to do - and the acquisition of speed receivers coupled with a desire to run outside says that it is - you go with the guy that threatens to stretch the field, not with the guy who averages nearly half his yards.

agreed.

Longtimefan · 09-12-2005, 04:32 PM

This all reminds me so much of the early 70's when we had Sonny & Billy. Sonny & Billy stickers, some want Sonny, some want Billy. Right now we are in a situation where neither QB can be counted on to successfully get the job done, hence all the confusion. I'm still waiting for one of the two to emerge as the leader, but from what I've seen through four pre-season games, and the first reg-season game it looks very much like 04-05 all over again.

skin4Life28 · 09-12-2005, 04:51 PM

where's the other category cause if were going to leave in the human turnover machine in ramsey. i would rather start J.C. i do not see us making the playoffs with our anemic offense. i'd rather have J.C. ready for next year then have to wait another year of development.

offiss · 09-12-2005, 05:04 PM

Gibbs stuck with Brunell last season through hell and highwater, retarding Ramseys growth as a QB, I personally believe Gibbs is partly looking for an excuse to explain away HIS inability to really coordiante a consistant passing game.

Mark my words all the guy's here who want to see Brunell in there will be calling for his head after 1 game, once they see him throwing the ball away, and 3 and out over and over again, I say start Brunell next week against the cowboys, it seems Brunell fails against the average defenses and Ramseys gets judged against the elite defenses while moveing the ball FAR better than Brunell on every occasion, I say lets get this over with once and for all.

Did anyone see the locker room interview with Brunell? When he was asked about his INT that was called back? He laughed and said he was trying to throw it 10 more yards downfield but he wasen't warmed up enough, WASEN'T WARMED UP ENOUGH????????? He came in mid way through the second quarter, is he telling me that he doesn't warm up before a game? Sounds to me like another excuse for Brunell, whether it comes from Gibbs or his own mouth, how does a veteran not be ready after a quarter and a half.

I also like the excuses Gibbs is trying to congure up about last year when the trainers came to him and said Brunell would be out for 2 weeks minimum after he hurt himself in the Giant game, but because Brunell told him he could go and he played him regardless, essentilly saying thats why Brunell failed last year because of an injury, forgetting he did nothing before the injury either. Now we are to believe he wont play Ramsey if he isn't 100% healthy when all he preaches is we need guys to play through injuries? Be tough and fight their guts out? Sorry but whether Ramsey succeed's or not, he really is being unfairly mistreated and scapegoated by Gibbs.

What's worse an ocaasional INT by Ramsey which I believe with time he will overcome, and have him move the ball up and down the field wearing the defense down, or watch Brunell throwing the ball away on third downs and constant 3 and out's leaving our defense on the field?

I will say it one more time 70 yards and no TD's in 2 1/2 quarters is this the QB of our future? Take a good look at those numbers because they are right inline with Brunells numbers last year!

skins052bgr8 · 09-12-2005, 05:22 PM

Great balls of fire!!!

Minnesota needs to Bench Culpepper did you see those awful plays interceptions fumbles and lost the damn game!! BENCH HIM! Sarcastic

Brett Farve Interception after interception and lost the game. BENCH HIM Sarcastic

Chad Pennington 6 fumbles and what two interceptions! Bench Him!! You get the picture

You've got to be kidding me we are basing and arguing about a quarterback controversy and we won. This type of inconsistency if they follow through with it and bench Ramsey is what has killed the Redskins in the past several years. So Ramsey has made some mistakes, we have yet to see him this year in a whole game, manage it from the get go. If he can eliminate even some of the mistakes the offense will be more productive than a flawless Brunell. 70 Yards passing in 2 1/2 quarters is ridiculous. If Brunell would play the whole game we would be looking at another monster passing day of barely over a 100 yards. Even your worst of QBS do better than that. I like Brunell as a back up, and pray that Gibbs gives Ramsey the reigns to finally work behind a solid line, good running game, and what appears can be a more effective offense. The bottom line is Quarterbacks in the best of situations have bad games proven in week one. McNabb what two or three years ago had that awful four week stretch and then turned it around and is one of the best in the league, do we have that in Ramsey if he can get comfortable I don't know, but he definitely deserves the chance. Can he be a Trent Green or a Brad Johnson.

View Poll Results: Assuming Ramsey is healthy, who's your starter for week 2?
Ramsey	57	76.00%
Brunell	18	24.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-2005, 02:30 PM	#61
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I am torn. I think Brunell gives the team a better chance to win in Dallas, but I also don't think Ramsey did enough to lose the starting job in a little over a quarter of football... That said, I think I would start brunell...it's about wins and losses in pro football not about whats fair to Pat... __________________ Section 116 Row 19 “Goal line, goal line. I-left, tight wing, 70 chip on white.” www.facebook.com/HackettstownBeerClub

09-12-2005, 02:34 PM	#62
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,233	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I'm torn also. I think that Dallas's defense is VERY easy to beat. Brunell thus far, has shown he is extremely accurate with short and intermediate passes while Ramsey can hit the deep ball or at least draw some PI calls. Basically, it's a pick your poison type of choice. I think that as long as we keep the turnovers down, we have a very good shot at this game. As Gibbs has stressed time and time again, turnovers are the key. Score minus turnovers/bonehead (or BS) penalties: 16-0. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

09-12-2005, 02:55 PM	#63
jermus22 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Frankfort, KY Age: 42 Posts: 336	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread I'm surprised we're actually talking about a qb change this early. __________________ Win it in the trenches.

09-12-2005, 02:59 PM	#64
jermus22 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Frankfort, KY Age: 42 Posts: 336	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread IMO Gibbs should continue to let Ramsey start but keep him on a short leash. He did get decent yardage for only 1 1/2 quarters of play, but his interception and two fumbles are unacceptable (guess you can't blame him for the one since Briggs should've been called for a clothesline). If he can avoid turnovers and continue to move the offense effectively, he deserves to start. It would be rotten to demote the guy for getting injured. Brunell was decent, and I'm confident with him as a backup, but he didn't exactly put up a lot of points. If Ramsey falters badly in the next three games, then we should go to Brunell. __________________ Win it in the trenches.

09-12-2005, 03:11 PM	#65
skinsfan0201 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Falls Church, VA Age: 45 Posts: 234	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread True it is not what is completely fair to Pat (though Gibbs should keep his word). Though in addition, in response to who gives the Redskins the best chance to win, overall Pat has a better record than Brunell in that catagory over the past season.

09-12-2005, 03:35 PM	#67
eppykid Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Age: 57 Posts: 6	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Ramsey deserves the start if healthy. I'm not convinced that the receiver didn't partially cause his interception by going outside instead of in. In addition, Ramsey made some nice throws. His arm is much stronger than Brunell. He should be afforded more than a quarter of football prior to losing his job.

09-12-2005, 03:39 PM	#68
redrock-skins Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 783	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Way too early for a QB controversy, especially when both are mediocre QBs anyway. Stick with Ramsey.

09-12-2005, 04:17 PM	#69
scowan The Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: KY Age: 55 Posts: 1,559	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread "He hurt his neck," Gibbs said. "For me, I personally felt like Mark got in there, looked pretty smooth and looked good. I felt like I could stay with Mark." This quote from Redskins.com and Gibbs post game comments, tells me that Gibbs realized early in the game that it would be a low scoring "dog-fight" and he had seen enough out of Ramsey with the turnovers to keep him out of the game. Especially if the trainers were telling him Ramsey might be dizzy, had a concussion (my thoughts at the time) or whatever. My thoughts are that Ramsey will be benched this week. The team will say it is a precaution to his injury or whatever other excuse they want to use. It is sad because I think most of us here want so badly to see Ramsey succeed, but he is just not doing it. Or even separating himself from Brunell for that matter. It is a shame, because I think without Ramsey in against Dallas, we have no shot at winning next Monday. I can stomach a few of Ramsey's turnovers because our defense is so good. Brunell is just inept, and that is much harder for me to watch.

09-12-2005, 04:22 PM	#70
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Here's the telling stat that gives a healthy Ramsey another start: Mark Brunell yards per attempt: 5.00 Patrick Ramsey yards per attempt: 9.55 If stretching out the field is what you intend to do - and the acquisition of speed receivers coupled with a desire to run outside says that it is - you go with the guy that threatens to stretch the field, not with the guy who averages nearly half his yards. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

09-12-2005, 04:32 PM	#72
Longtimefan Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germantown, Md. Posts: 4,832	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread This all reminds me so much of the early 70's when we had Sonny & Billy. Sonny & Billy stickers, some want Sonny, some want Billy. Right now we are in a situation where neither QB can be counted on to successfully get the job done, hence all the confusion. I'm still waiting for one of the two to emerge as the leader, but from what I've seen through four pre-season games, and the first reg-season game it looks very much like 04-05 all over again.

09-12-2005, 04:51 PM	#73
skin4Life28 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 38 Posts: 447	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread where's the other category cause if were going to leave in the human turnover machine in ramsey. i would rather start J.C. i do not see us making the playoffs with our anemic offense. i'd rather have J.C. ready for next year then have to wait another year of development.

09-12-2005, 05:04 PM	#74
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Gibbs stuck with Brunell last season through hell and highwater, retarding Ramseys growth as a QB, I personally believe Gibbs is partly looking for an excuse to explain away HIS inability to really coordiante a consistant passing game. Mark my words all the guy's here who want to see Brunell in there will be calling for his head after 1 game, once they see him throwing the ball away, and 3 and out over and over again, I say start Brunell next week against the cowboys, it seems Brunell fails against the average defenses and Ramseys gets judged against the elite defenses while moveing the ball FAR better than Brunell on every occasion, I say lets get this over with once and for all. Did anyone see the locker room interview with Brunell? When he was asked about his INT that was called back? He laughed and said he was trying to throw it 10 more yards downfield but he wasen't warmed up enough, WASEN'T WARMED UP ENOUGH????????? He came in mid way through the second quarter, is he telling me that he doesn't warm up before a game? Sounds to me like another excuse for Brunell, whether it comes from Gibbs or his own mouth, how does a veteran not be ready after a quarter and a half. I also like the excuses Gibbs is trying to congure up about last year when the trainers came to him and said Brunell would be out for 2 weeks minimum after he hurt himself in the Giant game, but because Brunell told him he could go and he played him regardless, essentilly saying thats why Brunell failed last year because of an injury, forgetting he did nothing before the injury either. Now we are to believe he wont play Ramsey if he isn't 100% healthy when all he preaches is we need guys to play through injuries? Be tough and fight their guts out? Sorry but whether Ramsey succeed's or not, he really is being unfairly mistreated and scapegoated by Gibbs. What's worse an ocaasional INT by Ramsey which I believe with time he will overcome, and have him move the ball up and down the field wearing the defense down, or watch Brunell throwing the ball away on third downs and constant 3 and out's leaving our defense on the field? I will say it one more time 70 yards and no TD's in 2 1/2 quarters is this the QB of our future? Take a good look at those numbers because they are right inline with Brunells numbers last year!

09-12-2005, 05:22 PM	#75
skins052bgr8 Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Richmond, Va. Age: 49 Posts: 288	Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread Great balls of fire!!! Minnesota needs to Bench Culpepper did you see those awful plays interceptions fumbles and lost the damn game!! BENCH HIM! Sarcastic Brett Farve Interception after interception and lost the game. BENCH HIM Sarcastic Chad Pennington 6 fumbles and what two interceptions! Bench Him!! You get the picture You've got to be kidding me we are basing and arguing about a quarterback controversy and we won. This type of inconsistency if they follow through with it and bench Ramsey is what has killed the Redskins in the past several years. So Ramsey has made some mistakes, we have yet to see him this year in a whole game, manage it from the get go. If he can eliminate even some of the mistakes the offense will be more productive than a flawless Brunell. 70 Yards passing in 2 1/2 quarters is ridiculous. If Brunell would play the whole game we would be looking at another monster passing day of barely over a 100 yards. Even your worst of QBS do better than that. I like Brunell as a back up, and pray that Gibbs gives Ramsey the reigns to finally work behind a solid line, good running game, and what appears can be a more effective offense. The bottom line is Quarterbacks in the best of situations have bad games proven in week one. McNabb what two or three years ago had that awful four week stretch and then turned it around and is one of the best in the league, do we have that in Ramsey if he can get comfortable I don't know, but he definitely deserves the chance. Can he be a Trent Green or a Brad Johnson.

Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread

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