Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look

[drew54]

Anyone else wish we had taken a chance on Trent Dilfer instead of Heath Shuler.

Maybe he could have been the long term game manager that we needed and then we wouldnt have to worry about Mark Brunell and Patrick Ramsey.

[VTSkins897]

Guys,

I haven't posted in a while but I am torn on this issue. Naturally I'll support whoever Gibbs puts in there. I just don't see what everyone is basing Brunell's ability to "play not to lose is." Did we not try that last year and fail? Brunell played well against the second-string D in the preseason. Some people at the stadium seem to forget that about a year ago people wanted Brunell's head on a platter.

I was at the game and when Brunell came in throwing a grounder followed by a jump ball thrown so poorly that the defender almost couldn't not interfere, the I started to have my doubts. Brunell made a good throw or two sure but I think he got us the three FGs primarily by handing the ball to the RBs. And guess what? Our leading/only scorer is not out with an injured leg. I think the need to get some yardage/TDs has increased more than slightly.

Now that might work against the Bears, albeit only by 2 pts. Is it going to hold against Dallas? Kansas City? Hell, even the Giants are putting up 6 TDs.

I don't think we're going to know anything until Tuesday morning and Brunell having received most of the snaps in practice. As a Redskins fan I've learned to appreciate every win due to the infrequency of their occurence. That being said, this was the first time in a long time I left the stadium after a win very unimpressed. When putting a 36 y/o who got yanked last year is an improvement I think we are in trouble. Only time will tell though and as always when I'm doubting the 'Skins; I hope that I am incorrect.

Here's to hoping for a win in Dallas. Go 'Skins!

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by VTSkins897

Guys,

I haven't posted in a while but I am torn on this issue. Naturally I'll support whoever Gibbs puts in there. I just don't see what everyone is basing Brunell's ability to "play not to lose is." Did we not try that last year and fail? Brunell played well against the second-string D in the preseason. Some people at the stadium seem to forget that about a year ago people wanted Brunell's head on a platter.

I was at the game and when Brunell came in throwing a grounder followed by a jump ball thrown so poorly that the defender almost couldn't not interfere, the I started to have my doubts. Brunell made a good throw or two sure but I think he got us the three FGs primarily by handing the ball to the RBs. And guess what? Our leading/only scorer is not out with an injured leg. I think the need to get some yardage/TDs has increased more than slightly.

Now that might work against the Bears, albeit only by 2 pts. Is it going to hold against Dallas? Kansas City? Hell, even the Giants are putting up 6 TDs.

I don't think we're going to know anything until Tuesday morning and Brunell having received most of the snaps in practice. As a Redskins fan I've learned to appreciate every win due to the infrequency of their occurence. That being said, this was the first time in a long time I left the stadium after a win very unimpressed. When putting a 36 y/o who got yanked last year is an improvement I think we are in trouble. Only time will tell though and as always when I'm doubting the 'Skins; I hope that I am incorrect.

Here's to hoping for a win in Dallas. Go 'Skins!

Thank you for clearly stating what I was too lazy to type.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

We'll be lucky to get a 3rd for him.

I disagree. AJ Feeley yielded a 2nd rounder. Ramsey's cap number will be low next year, there's no reason some team out there won't be willing to give up at least a 2nd rounder. I don't think a 1st is out of the question, a lot of people think all Ramsey needs is a change of scenery.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by VTSkins897

Guys,
I haven't posted in a while but I am torn on this issue. Naturally I'll support whoever Gibbs puts in there. I just don't see what everyone is basing Brunell's ability to "play not to lose is." Did we not try that last year and fail? Brunell played well against the second-string D in the preseason. Some people at the stadium seem to forget that about a year ago people wanted Brunell's head on a platter.

Well, it's not last year. You'll note that Brunell was hurt last year during the Giants game (2nd game of the season). That hamstring injury made it hard for him to get much mustard on his throws. That explains why his passes have much more zip this year.

Also, the offensive line was dismal last year when Brunell was playing. They sure look a lot better now.

I think with his arm and legs back to 100%, and a better team around him, all the ingredients are there for him to make the same throws that Ramsey can make. Only difference is that Brunell is less likely to turn it over, seeing that he knows how to get rid of the ball before being sacked and fumbling.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

To a point I have flip-flopped.

I supported Gibbs' decision to stick by Ramsey, even though he was struggling I was thinking well there must be something that Gibbs sees in him to keep sticking with him. Maybe he's close to turning the corner.

Now it's obvious he isn't close to turning that corner. Gibbs has decided to pull the plug before things get ugly. He stuck by Brunell last year way too long and he's not going to repeat that.

Now I'm supporting Gibbs' decision to make the switch.

Looking at the big picture, and keeping emotion out of it, Brunell is the better option right now.

I don't know why there's this view that people can't change their minds.

Winning in the NFL and in life is all about adapting to change and making adjustments on the fly.

Sticking to a plan is great, but when circumstances dictate a change in plans, sticking to your plan just for the sake of sticking to it is not a smart thing to do.

the point is, Ramsey was clearly the better option last year, and Gibbs didn't take it. he saw something in Brunell too, he didn't turn any corner, but he stayed with him and it killed our season. that proved he was fallible, and is the only reason we're questioning him now. it's not emotion, it's *recent memory*.

10 games was too way too long last year but 19 minutes??

[Drift Reality]

You know who Ramsey sort of reminds me of? Gus Frerotte.

The guy came in and showed flashes of being a starting quartback in this league. Ultimately, he made too many mistakes under pressure and started doubting his own talent and ability.

He bounced around and actually played well when given the opportunity. He kept bouncing around and finally has gotten an opportunity to be the man. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people this year. Also, there is something about being bounced around that strengthens the resolve of people with strong wills.

I think mentally, most QBs are going to go through some really difficult times in the NFL. How they deal with it will determine what kind of player they are. Ramsey whining for a trade like some schoolboy bitch is really pathetic. He knows how he played, he needs to suck it up and accept the fact that he is not ready yet.

[Schneed10]

On Ramsey, the interceptions are quite frustrating. But I recognize interceptions are going to happen, and Brunell might not be much of an improvement in that department. But to me the difference is Brunell knows how to get rid of the ball. He has that internal clock in his head that tells him when a play is busted. He did a nice job of scrambling out of the pocket and throwing the ball away on Sunday. The interceptions are frustrating, but the fumbles at the hands of the pass rush are the most frustrating thing. You can't sit in the pocket and wait to get drilled. And since intentional grounding can only be called when you're in the tackle box, it sure would help if we had a QB who could actually get out of the tackle box to get rid of the ball.

Ramsey is a turnover waiting to happen and that's not going to change. He has great games occasionally for sure, but the turnovers and sacks are not worth it. Time for a change.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by illdefined

the point is, Ramsey was clearly the better option last year, and Gibbs didn't take it. he saw something in Brunell too, he didn't turn any corner, but he stayed with him and it killed our season. that proved he was fallible, and is the only reason we're questioning him now. it's not emotion, it's *recent memory*.

10 games was too way too long last year but 19 minutes??

Those 19 minutes resulted in one interception on a badly thrown ball, and two fumbles. Luckily only one was recovered by the Bears.

In the NFL these days, you can't sit in the pocket and wait and wait and wait. In the NFL now, the pass rush is coming. Be it in the form of Jevon Kearse, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, or a host of blitzing LBs and safeties. Defenses bring the house nowadays. You can't sit and wait for it, you have to get rid of the ball. That has always been Ramsey's #1 problem, and we can't wait for that to change any longer. He should have shown progress by now.

[Schneed10]

It's tempting to keep playing Ramsey because when he has time to throw he'll gash the defense. But no offensive line is perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. One fumble per game is too many, but two in 19 minutes?? The line must be drawn somewhere. The tone must be set: WE DON'T TOLERATE TURNOVERS ON THIS TEAM.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It's tempting to keep playing Ramsey because when he has time to throw he'll gash the defense. But no offensive line is perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. One fumble per game is too many, but two in 19 minutes?? The line must be drawn somewhere. The tone must be set: WE DON'T TOLERATE TURNOVERS ON THIS TEAM.

duante fumbles all the time, so does vick... you're right about the turnovers though, we don't tolerate them... unless it brunell making them. he had bad fumbles last year.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Those 19 minutes resulted in one interception on a badly thrown ball, and two fumbles. Luckily only one was recovered by the Bears.

In the NFL these days, you can't sit in the pocket and wait and wait and wait. In the NFL now, the pass rush is coming. Be it in the form of Jevon Kearse, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, or a host of blitzing LBs and safeties. Defenses bring the house nowadays. You can't sit and wait for it, you have to get rid of the ball. That has always been Ramsey's #1 problem, and we can't wait for that to change any longer. He should have shown progress by now.

yeah Ramsey waited way too long when he got clotheslined.??

[Redskins_P]

I'm gonna keep this short and simple. This is how I feel about the whole Brunell/Ramsey situation. I know most of you won't agree, but hey this is why we're here to discuss the Skins.

Ramsey still isn't comfortable in the pocket. He still makes rookie mistakes. Granted he can get the ball downfield, but theres a risk with turning the ball over everytime he throws it. He still can't read defenses. At least Brunell will make smart decisions....and thats all you can ask for. We don't need Peyton Manning or Brett Favre or Tom Brady. We just need someone to help the offense move the ball. We have a solid o-line and a great running game. The defense as we all know....will do its job.

So I agree with Coach Gibbs on this one. Hats off to him for having the balls to doing it so quickly. I think he just got tired of all the turnovers.

[Sociofan]

Originally Posted by illdefined

it's more than probable Gibbs just holds a great deal of pride in choosing his own team leader. Ramsey was always the red-headed stepchild, and this 20 minute "start" just proves he doesn't really want to build with him. as if Campbell wasn't proof enough.

Now THAT is just B.S. Gibbs inherited Joey T and made a fine QB out of him. Don't overanalyze this as a "personal" decision.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

duante fumbles all the time, so does vick... you're right about the turnovers though, we don't tolerate them... unless it brunell making them. he had bad fumbles last year.

Brunell's fumbles last year were more a function of the horrible offensive line. The line couldn't block anyone at the beginning of the year. It wasn't like he held onto the ball forever and the pass rush eventually got to him. The line let the pass rush in and he just never had time to begin with. That's the difference, when the line gives Brunell time he doesn't make mistakes like that. Ramsey still has a tendency to do that, even when the line gives him enough time.