Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Gibbs won the '91 Super Bowl with Charley Casserly as the GM and Beathard was long gone.

Understood but it was with a team that Beathard built.

[66skinsfan]

"We are in the midst of a crisis in Redskins Nation. Never before have I seen such in-fighting after A WIN! Its obvious that our team is in turmoil. That being said, at what point for each of you would you actually call for a coaching change?"
For me, when Sonny got benched for Kilmer, I wanted Allen to go away. But does anyone remember where the skins went that year? Gibbs demands ball control offense (we typically had the ballup to 2/3's of the game during Gibbs 1).
So starting the season with two turnovers, while Brunell looked sharp during preseason, I don't blame Gibbs for benching Ramsey. A. Brown is another visable reminder to control the ball.
Look for the rookie qb to go during garbage time.

[paulskinsfan]

Regardless of how Brunell plays on Monday night, this QB thing is a nightmare for the Skins. No one thinks Mark Brunnel is the future of the Skins, even for this season. At best, he'll play mediocre and win a few games. In the meantime, we destroyed what little progress Ramsey made in the offseason, and when he gets the call when Brunnel gets injured, and he will get the call, then the crap is gonna really hit the fan. I think the fans question Gibbs because this latest move was just so unlike him. It really makes you question what was once the unquestionable: Can you really take Joe Gibbs at his word?

[SkinsRock]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

Regardless of how Brunell plays on Monday night, this QB thing is a nightmare for the Skins. No one thinks Mark Brunnel is the future of the Skins, even for this season. At best, he'll play mediocre and win a few games. In the meantime, we destroyed what little progress Ramsey made in the offseason, and when he gets the call when Brunnel gets injured, and he will get the call, then the crap is gonna really hit the fan. I think the fans question Gibbs because this latest move was just so unlike him. It really makes you question what was once the unquestionable: Can you really take Joe Gibbs at his word?

Gibbs wants to do one thing: WIN FOOTBALL GAMES!!! That's what he is paid to do. So if that means changing his mind and "going against his word", so be it.
You are right though, Brunell is not the long-term answer. He is here to hold the job while playing soldi until someone else steps up...presumably Ramsey this year or more likely Campbell in a season or two. I disagree about Ramsey though. He will play to the best of his ability if he needs to go back in. He is a team guy, and assuming his Redskin days are numbered, his performance affects his value if he is to be released or traded.

[paulskinsfan]

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

Gibbs wants to do one thing: WIN FOOTBALL GAMES!!! That's what he is paid to do. So if that means changing his mind and "going against his word", so be it.
You are right though, Brunell is not the long-term answer. He is here to hold the job while playing soldi until someone else steps up...presumably Ramsey this year or more likely Campbell in a season or two. I disagree about Ramsey though. He will play to the best of his ability if he needs to go back in. He is a team guy, and assuming his Redskin days are numbered, his performance affects his value if he is to be released or traded.

Oh I think Ramsey will give effort, I just don't think his performance will be good based on no reps with the first team and confidence that may never come back. The kid will try, I just don't think there is any way he will succeed with our team now.....ever.

[MTK]

Guys let's face it, Ramsey wasn't Gibbs' choice from the very start. So to be concerned with how Ramsey is going to deal with this long term is silly. Campbell is his long term choice, and Brunell is in for the short term.

[MTK]

I'm sorry but Byner and Riggs worked out perfectly for us and Woods was a one hit wonder.

As for Howard, check anybody's draft resume and you'll see everyone around the league makes mistakes in the draft.

He easily would have been somebody else's mistake that year. He was a projected first round pick, the Skins moved up to grab him, so what? Are we just going to hang this on Gibbs for the rest of his life? Please, get over it already. That one mistake doesn't mean the man can't evaluate talent. Even top picks are a crapshoot at times. Look at Taylor, they did all the homework they could on him, and he still ends up being a pain in the ass and got himself into legal troubles. Stuff like that happens. The most sure thing can end up a bust and it happens to every team, every GM and every coach if you're around long enough.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm sorry but Byner and Riggs worked out perfectly for us and Woods was a one hit wonder.

As for Howard, check anybody's draft resume and you'll see everyone around the league makes mistakes in the draft.

He easily would have been somebody else's mistake that year. He was a projected first round pick, the Skins moved up to grab him, so what? Are we just going to hang this on Gibbs for the rest of his life? Please, get over it already. That one mistake doesn't mean the man can't evaluate talent. Even top picks are a crapshoot at times. Look at Taylor, they did all the homework they could on him, and he still ends up being a pain in the ass and got himself into legal troubles. Stuff like that happens. The most sure thing can end up a bust and it happens to every team, every GM and every coach if you're around long enough.

Well we know it keep's happening to gibbs.

Byner worked out much better than Riggs, Icky blew his knee out the next season but he was playing his games on turf as well, who knows if that happens if he's a skin, the problem was in the philosophy between the 2, Beathard had it right you build teams through the draft not by signing veteran estabished players, and that theory applies to today's NFL more drastically with the salary cap now instituded.

[GoSkins!]

Yeah, Taylor, Cooley, and Rogers have turned out to be terrible picks. We should have gone with guys like Winslow...

[56FAN]

gibbs is turning it around, it may not be pretty but we are moving and in the right direction.again, i say to my fellow warpather's, don't get all caught up in the media. those people just stirr the pot. that's all they do, even when there's nothing . they will stirr.i like ramsey, but as i said before, our margin for error on this team is very thin. turn overs cannot be tolerated at all.even from ramsey.this storm too shall pass.
hang in there people.

[illdefined]

its been a long long storm...

[Longtimefan]

I'm afraid there is no breaking point for the Hall of Famer and from what I continue to read in these post, many of these so-called Redskins fans have very little faith. Gibbs said he's not going to leave here without another ring, so who am I to beleive you or him?
Never before have I seen so much carrying-on over the changing of a QB. Some act like it's the end of the world. Just two seasons ago Spurrier changed QB's like socks and it was no more than routine, nothing said, now with so many Brunell haters turning into Gibbs haters, the changing of one for another seems to be such a giant deal. It just dosen't make sense guys because neither of these QB's are going to be here in a couple years anyway, so why get all worked up about two players who aren't even going to be with the team. Real fans are warriors, they understand there are going to be up's and down's, good and bad, but everytime adversity comes you don't jump ship. That's been our number one problem since Gibbs lelf in 1992, every time we didn't have "instant" success with something or someone we jumped to change, and what have we accomplished by continuing to change? "Nothing" I hope Gibbs stays with this team until he get's it right because there is no one available who is any better. If there is, throw me out a name.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

I'm afraid there is no breaking point for the Hall of Famer and from what I continue to read in these post, many of these so-called Redskins fans have very little faith. Gibbs said he's not going to leave here without another ring, so who am I to beleive you or him?
Never before have I seen so much carrying-on over the changing of a QB. Some act like it's the end of the world. Just two seasons ago Spurrier changed QB's like socks and it was no more than routine, nothing said, now with so many Brunell haters turning into Gibbs haters, the changing of one for another seems to be such a giant deal. It just dosen't make sense guys because neither of these QB's are going to be here in a couple years anyway, so why get all worked up about two players who aren't even going to be with the team. Real fans are warriors, they understand there are going to be up's and down's, good and bad, but everytime adversity comes you don't jump ship. That's been our number one problem since Gibbs lelf in 1992, every time we didn't have "instant" success with something or someone we jumped to change, and what have we accomplished by continuing to change? "Nothing" I hope Gibbs stays with this team until he get's it right because there is no one available who is any better. If there is, throw me out a name.

I don't think tossing gibbs or our D staff would help at all... all we need is a good QB and possibly a true #1 WR. I'm just praying we're better than last year and making steady progress. I'd like to do better than 6-10 this year.

[skins009]

I think it would take two more losing seasons. Then I think Gibbs himself would resign.

[BigSKINBauer]

A QB change couldn't bring me to even think about taking gibbs out. In all honesty I think Gibbs would step down before I would ever ever ever want him to go. I just think consistency is what we need but if gibbs really does horrible(which i doubt he will) i think he will step down, his breaking point is probally higher than mine is.