Campbell's numbers dont lie

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Although O-line is a glaring need. How much time do other QB's get in order to get the ball off? I'll agree with you guys that the O-line needs to be upgraded and needs to learn how to block as a team, otherwise the run game will be stifled.

Well if you realize that the OL isn't up to par in the running game or the passing game what makes you think the still give JC as much time as other OLs?

I did see some jail breaks in the Eagles game, but other then that JC gets around 3-7 seconds to get rid of the ball on his pass plays. I think most QB's get 3-7 seconds to get the ball off.

I think you need to research how much time a QB gets in the pocket because you are way off base.
If you don't want to look it up, watch a game with stop watch that goes to the hundredths.

You'll find the following:
3 seconds of pass pro would be considered average
1.5-1.7 seconds on a 3 step drop the ball should be coming out (a QB should not get hit on a 3 step drop)
4-5 seconds behind a good OL on 5-7 step drop
7 seconds of protection almost never happens

[MTK]

Yeah 7 seconds is ridiculous...

Typically if a QB gets a full 3 seconds, that's good protection.

[Chico23231]

30gut we will just have to disagree. Like I stated, I wanted JC to be that franchise type but to me he just doenst have it. From a mental and leadership perspective of the position he gets very low marks. Good Oline or not. Physical standpoint, he has all the tools. Yeah coaching has some to do with it, maybe he has had too many changes but that is water under the bridge. Another year, another coach, another system is not going to benefit JC here, its time to move on. And like I said, management does not want him here, he has had his chance, good luck to him.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

30gut we will just have to disagree. Like I stated, I wanted JC to be that franchise type but to me he just doenst have it. From a mental and leadership perspective of the position he gets very low marks. Good Oline or not. Physical standpoint, he has all the tools. Yeah coaching has some to do with it, maybe he has had too many changes but that is water under the bridge. Another year, another coach, another system is not going to benefit JC here, its time to move on. And like I said, management does not want him here, he has had his chance, good luck to him.

We can agree to disagree.
But when people start in with the bashing rhetoric its hard for me to remain silent in the face of spurios claims. http://www.thewarpath.net/618206-post922.html
Hey, if you don't think JC can be any better then the 18th QB in the league given the circumstances, cool.
But no need to bash the dude.

I just don't understand how anyone can judge JC negatively this season.
There aren't many QBs in the league that would play better in this situation.
And if JC is gone next year who are we gonna find thats actually better?
Finding different is easy finding better is another story.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by 30gut

We can agree to disagree.
But when people start in with the bashing rhetoric its hard for me to remain silent in the face of spurios claims. http://www.thewarpath.net/618206-post922.html
Hey, if you don't think JC can be any better then the 18th QB in the league given the circumstances, cool.
But no need to bash the dude.

I just don't understand how anyone can judge JC negatively this season.
There aren't many QBs in the league that would play better in this situation.
And if JC is gone next year who are we gonna find thats actually better?
Finding different is easy finding better is another story.

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play. Okay, take the bad plays that YOU think were definitely the fault of offensive linemen and wide receivers and don't consider these in evaluating Campbell's play. Now look at the rest of the plays and then tell me how he did. If you can't find these mistakes from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first, because it is the most important (position) to the offense. To me, you really have to look at the most important positions first to fix things because of the impact they have to their unit and thus their team. Usually, I think one of the last positions that you would consider important on the list is probably a blocker on kickoff returns.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play. Okay, take the bad plays that YOU think were definitely the fault of offensive linemen and wide receivers and don't consider these in evaluating Campbell's play. Now look at the rest of the plays and then tell me how he did. If you can't find these mistakes from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first, because it is the most important (position) to the offense. To me, you really have to look at the most important positions first to fix things because of the impact they have to their unit and thus their team. Usually, I think one of the last positions that you would consider important on the list is probably a blocker on kickoff returns.

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

Yeah, it appears that the campbell defenders won't even listen to some of the most respected experts linked to the nfl. Even when these experts make it a point to start off their analysis of the redskins losing with a focus on campbell's play.

My opinion doesn't have a lot of weight and rightfully so, but you have to really listen when someone like Steve Young (who I think has earned his respect) starts his analysis by saying Campbell played a bad game and continues it by putting focus on some of his mistakes.

The analysis of these experts also should be used to judge Campbell's play more than the stats. And I don't think there's any analysis that has expressed that Campbell has been playing "very well" up to this point.

[Redskin Warrior]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

I'm a JC believer and I agree with what you said but not everyone the believes in him or supports him is in denial that he needs to work on things. JC is timid to throw into tight windows that is correct I agree 100% and some of that is that he doesn't trust his receivers. I've watched JC from his college days until now I'm a huge SEC fan period and I know what the fellow can do. All I said is part of his problem is previous coaching hammering him with "Don't Lose The Game" mentality has hurt him now he doesn't take risk as much. I just found out that we don't have audibles in our offense so if the defense in a certain coverage he can't audibles into other plays. Peyton is so successful because he actually changes plays at the line to move down field. If the blitz is coming but a playaction pass is called truth be told he is probably going to take that sack or call a timeout. So he's limited in certain areas more than other QB's that's not his fault, but he is not playing well at all and has happy feet but it comes from him not trusting his line and receivers.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Its a losing battle. You will not convince the believers. No argument will make them see. Just be content with the fact that the people who watch the film for a living see what you are seeing. Jaws called it all night. Greg Cossel has made the point ad nauseam. On this board Slingin' Sammy has it in black and white in his review. The old adage is "the eye in the sky doesn't lie" not "numbers are truth." If you can't see that Campbell is frankly scared to make passes then you are not watching. You can make all of the excuses you like, the guy refuses to throw into tight windows. I have said it before and Sammy said it nicely in his game review, without the ability to make quick reads, play with timing, and throw into tight windows you are a backup quarterback at the NFL level. That is what we have with Campbell. Next man.

Dude, Jaws both praises and critisizes Campbell, Cossel has been effusive breaking down Campbell passes. As have Brian Billick, Phil Simms. Just this week Collinsworth on Doc Walker, Joey T on the Sports Reporters, John Ritchie on ESPN have all said that JC is a good QB playing behind a suspect OL.

Lol, I like Sammy's reveiws too but he's no more an expert then i am.
You guys share the same opinion but its still just your opinion.

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Forget the stats, forget comparing him to any other quarterback and really isolate Campbell's play.

I'm not denying that JC misses open receivers or checksdown.
But rather the idea that JC does it more then other QBs and that is how a judgement is made.

from the last game that Campbell was responsible for then let me know - turnovers, missed touchdowns/big plays, and awful pocket presence (leading to undue pressure and sacks).

Awful pocket presence leading to undue pressure? Really? You think JC is causing the pressure and sacks? Okay.
LoL, JC pocket presence or lack thereof at the start of the game is due to previous games lack of protection.
Although JC had pressure the fumble was his fault the onus is always on the ball carrier to protect the ball.
Missed 'big' play? Dude, every QB misses some plays, they pointed out McNabb missing a 'big' play.

I think everything on offense is predicated on and ran through the quarterback. That's why I really believe that the most important thing is to fix that position first,

OL brotha OL it starts right there.

[MTK]

Sorry Buster you were a bit vague in your explanation of "Campbell long passes".

Next time make a play, ok?

[SolidSnake84]

I want to go out on a limb here and say that Campbell isn't a flawed QB, it's just that i think he lacks the mental side of the game. Campbell's college coach put it the best when he said earlier this year that the hardest battle they fought in Auburn was getting him to believe in himself. He thinks Jason plays scared.

I see all of these things. The NFL is full of QBs who aren't superstars individually, but can do good things with the team. I think of Jeff Garcia, who didnt' have a strong arm, nor was he big physically, but he could always find a way to win and keep a drive alive...

Campbell now reminds me of Brunell in 2006. He isn't quite stinking it up, but he's not doing anything to try and win the game either....

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I want to go out on a limb here and say that Campbell isn't a flawed QB, it's just that i think he lacks the mental side of the game. Campbell's college coach put it the best when he said earlier this year that the hardest battle they fought in Auburn was getting him to believe in himself. He thinks Jason plays scared.

I see all of these things. The NFL is full of QBs who aren't superstars individually, but can do good things with the team. I think of Jeff Garcia, who didnt' have a strong arm, nor was he big physically, but he could always find a way to win and keep a drive alive...

Campbell now reminds me of Brunell in 2006. He isn't quite stinking it up, but he's not doing anything to try and win the game either....

I didn't know this. In hindsight, I think that was very important to note. An athlete won't be able to succeed for very long, if you have to battle to convince him to believe in himself.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I want to go out on a limb here and say that Campbell isn't a flawed QB, it's just that i think he lacks the mental side of the game. Campbell's college coach put it the best when he said earlier this year that the hardest battle they fought in Auburn was getting him to believe in himself. He thinks Jason plays scared.

I see all of these things. The NFL is full of QBs who aren't superstars individually, but can do good things with the team. I think of Jeff Garcia, who didnt' have a strong arm, nor was he big physically, but he could always find a way to win and keep a drive alive...

Campbell now reminds me of Brunell in 2006. He isn't quite stinking it up, but he's not doing anything to try and win the game either....

One or two other people have also brought up that comparison and I actually think it is a good one. By the numbers (if we must) ...

Brunell 2006:
Through 9 weeks
TOTAL: 162/260 (62.3%), 1,789 yds, 8 TD, 4 INT, 86.5 rating, 92 rush yds

Campbell:
Through 7 weeks
TOTAL: 136/206 (66.0%), 1,481 yds, 8 TD, 7 INT, 85.8 rating, 103 rush yds

The obvious answer is that in 2006 we had a first round QB on the bench and needed to get him in the game, in 2009 we do not have that option. Brunell was also 35 years old. Fair enough. Brunell was also more successful in his career than Campbell ever will be, unfortunately.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Campbell now reminds me of Brunell in 2006. He isn't quite stinking it up, but he's not doing anything to try and win the game either....

Brunell's problem was that his arm strength was gone and he knew he couldn't make the plays he used to.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Brunell's problem was that his arm strength was gone and he knew he couldn't make the plays he used to.

Brunell's problem was that his defense was trash and he had a first round prospect breathing down his neck. No one really thought of him as anything more than a caretaker anyway.

Campbell's issue appears to be that he's been handed a "now or never" scenario, and then given a team with no chance to win now. It's pretty obvious that Campbell is not the right quarterback for this team. Campbell's defense is not trash, it's giving him plenty of chances to win games, but the expectation from the front office is that Campbell leads an offensive resurgence that scores lots of points.

You're getting a lot of fumbles and interceptions and careless play from Campbell that seem to just be a result of the situation. Erratic quarterback play is not what this team requires right now, but the front office pretty much got what they asked for.