Obama Care

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well why didn't your man Obama cut other programs to pay for his health care bill? Thats a small bill and is he willing to cut enough programs to pay for the health care he really wants? From what I've seen he is just another politician spending us into more dept and why force people into a health care system they don't want? I know its a system you guys want but you need us to pay fo it.

He did cut Medicare Advantage....the CBO said it would reduce the deficit when we compare it to proposals on the table by the GOP or if we stick to the status quo.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

He did cut Medicare Advantage....the CBO said it would reduce the deficit when we compare it to proposals on the table by the GOP or if we stick to the status quo.

Wow, now pay for the other trillion plus we will see from this plan. I'll go on record and say that their number will be 150% off. Thats if they can even get all these people who say they cannot get insurance to sign up for his great plan. So far there is no mad rush from the uninsured with health issues.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Wow, now pay for the other trillion plus we will see from this plan. I'll go on record and say that their number will be 150% off. Thats if they can even get all these people who say they cannot get insurance to sign up for his great plan. So far there is no mad rush from the uninsured with health issues.

lol just tell us where to line up. i dont think any of these plans have been kicked into action yet. if and when it does, i will keep you all updated on the process, costs, etc.

we arent looking for a handout or free coverage, just something that non-rich people with school and hospital debts can afford while not having to move completely into the ghetto.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

I don't think health care means something different to everyone. It means the exact same thing when it comes to the kind of health care we expect for ourselves and our loved ones. Simply put we all expect to be fixed up in a timely manner regardless of whether we have or don't have the monetary means to pay.

Now everyone may have a different view as to what the government should provide in a quality health care program. Whether it be the belief that the government shouldn't be in the business of health care, it should provide basic service such as checkups, or comprehensive health care program that includes things such as paying for cancer treatment.

I am all for doing what we can do...some may say we can't do health care in this country and to those I say why not? Why spend so much money building our armies while our people die because they don't have health care?

My point is that before we continue the debate, in the greater sense, let's first define exactly what it is that gov't run health-care advocates want. At the very least it removes a giant variable that muddies the discussion.

[over the mountain]

gov't run health care advocates want affordable health care coverage that is practical and reasonably priced.

practical = covers me for the basic emergency medical needs like a heart attack, I cut my finger off, get robbed and beaten in an alley and covers me for expected future medical needs like pregnancy.

I do not think things like dental or cosmetic or vision should be covered as most of these arent covered under a traditional private health coverage.

reasonably priced = not paying more than $150 at most a month for the above referenced services

the area of covering pre-exisiting disease, illness or injury is a tough one. if someone has high blood pressure the ins co many not cover you for a heart attack b/c they wil claim it was caused by a pre-existing high blood pressure.

right now, if you go into an ER as a homeless person with no soc number or drivers license you get treatment for free and the hospital chalks it up as a loss but if you work 2 jobs and dont have health insurance they slap you with a 12k bill for being in the hospital for 4 hours and sent home with tylenol. THIS HAS TO CHANGE.

hard working people who cant afford reasonable coverage are getting screwed. Not to repeat but my girl suffered an absolutely horrendous head trauma injury last year. We debated for days on whether to go to the hospital. after the 3rd day she was getting ready for work in the bathroom, i hear a loud crash upstairs, she had passed out. she said she was having equilibrium problems, headaches, etc so i said thats it were going to the hospital i dont care how much it costs we are not taking a chance with a brain injury and possible internal bleeding.

go to the hospital, decline a bunch of tests they wanted to do.

a week or so later get a bill for alil less than 2k. i think thats no so bad. 1 month later get a bill for over 10k. we havent paid anything on that bill. my girls credit is ruined and she couldnt put her name on the loan app for our new house.

if you have health ins you dont know the dilemna people without it are put in when they suffer a serious injury.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

gov't run health care advocates want affordable health care coverage that is practical and reasonably priced.

practical = covers me for the basic emergency medical needs like a heart attack, I cut my finger off, get robbed and beaten in an alley and covers me for expected future medical needs like pregnancy.

I do not think things like dental or cosmetic or vision should be covered as most of these arent covered under a traditional private health coverage.

reasonably priced = not paying more than $150 at most a month for the above referenced services

the area of covering pre-exisiting disease, illness or injury is a tough one. if someone has high blood pressure the ins co many not cover you for a heart attack b/c they wil claim it was caused by a pre-existing high blood pressure.

right now, if you go into an ER as a homeless person with no soc number or drivers license you get treatment for free and the hospital chalks it up as a loss but if you work 2 jobs and dont have health insurance they slap you with a 12k bill for being in the hospital for 4 hours and sent home with tylenol. THIS HAS TO CHANGE.

hard working people who cant afford reasonable coverage are getting screwed. Not to repeat but my girl suffered an absolutely horrendous head trauma injury last year. We debated for days on whether to go to the hospital. after the 3rd day she was getting ready for work in the bathroom, i hear a loud crash upstairs, she had passed out. she said she was having equilibrium problems, headaches, etc so i said thats it were going to the hospital i dont care how much it costs we are not taking a chance with a brain injury and possible internal bleeding.

go to the hospital, decline a bunch of tests they wanted to do.

a week or so later get a bill for alil less than 2k. i think thats no so bad. 1 month later get a bill for over 10k. we havent paid anything on that bill. my girls credit is ruined and she couldnt put her name on the loan app for our new house.

if you have health ins you dont know the dilemna people without it are put in when they suffer a serious injury.

Not sure how old you are but why didn't she have health ins. too expensive, health issues, her age, etc ?

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Not sure how old you are but why didn't she have health ins. too expensive, health issues, her age, etc ?

Too expensive for a 30 year old bartender with college loan debts.

She has (well had) insurance for just under $100 a month (i think it was aobut 70/mo). she was covered for any medical bills she accumulated in that year over 10k. So, if she had this plan when she suffered her head trauma, she would only be on the hook for roughly 10 of the 12k! she called it the "if you die in a plane crash" coverage.

Has anyone tried to apply for health insurance lately? it is EXPENSIVE AS HELL if your job doesnt offer some kind of help. I think she can get covered for about 260 a month, atleast that was the rates we were looking at about 6-8 months ago when I talked about it on here.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Too expensive for a 30 year old bartender with college loan debts.

She has (well had) insurance for just under $100 a month (i think it was aobut 70/mo). she was covered for any medical bills she accumulated in that year over 10k. So, if she had this plan when she suffered her head trauma, she would only be on the hook for roughly 10 of the 12k! she called it the "if you die in a plane crash" coverage.

Has anyone tried to apply for health insurance lately? it is EXPENSIVE AS HELL if your job doesnt offer some kind of help. I think she can get covered for about 260 a month, atleast that was the rates we were looking at about 6-8 months ago when I talked about it on here.

Not sure but usually the employee plans are a percentage deal..so the 260 is maybe a 30% deal. So the coverage is actually costing $866 but the employer pays 70%.

Could be different though I'd bet it is a something like that.

This post also brings up a whole other issue. Why does your college educated GF not have a job commensurate with a college education (paying more and offering health-care)? Could it be that we've turned college degrees into what high-school degrees were 30 years ago? Back then if you had a college degree you had a good job if you wanted one.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Not sure but usually the employee plans are a percentage deal..so the 260 is maybe a 30% deal. So the coverage is actually costing $866 but the employer pays 70%.

Could be different though I'd bet it is a something like that.

This post also brings up a whole other issue. Why does your college educated GF not have a job commensurate with a college education (paying more and offering health-care)? Could it be that we've turned college degrees into what high-school degrees were 30 years ago? Back then if you had a college degree you had a good job if you wanted one.

I dated a girl making around $1500 back around 1995 and even though she had a degree she liked the job. She has sense moved on but I don't knock anyone who is working.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Not sure but usually the employee plans are a percentage deal..so the 260 is maybe a 30% deal. So the coverage is actually costing $866 but the employer pays 70%.

Could be different though I'd bet it is a something like that.

This post also brings up a whole other issue. Why does your college educated GF not have a job commensurate with a college education (paying more and offering health-care)? Could it be that we've turned college degrees into what high-school degrees were 30 years ago? Back then if you had a college degree you had a good job if you wanted one.

People with poor parents have to rely upon scholarships to go to college. she was the first one in her fmaily to go to college b/c she had a cheerleader scholarship which she lost after her first year of college. She never graduated college so in an attempt to make her family proud she really just set herself up to start out in the world with nothing more than a HS diploma and huge college loan debts who hound her at every turn.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

reasonably priced = not paying more than $150 at most a month for the above referenced services

Here's one of my main gripes with a lot of people who want a gov't run system. The above bolded quote is at best ignorant and at worst totally absurd. You have no idea if $150 a month is reasonable within the system you want. The $150 is reasonable to YOU. You are offering $1800 a year to be covered for all things major that might cost 10s of thousands of dollars if you ever have to actually use your coverage. I obviously have no more idea than you about the costs but your offer seems way too low to me.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Here's one of my main gripes with a lot of people who want a gov't run system. The above bolded quote is at best ignorant and at worst totally absurd. You have no idea if $150 a month is reasonable within the system you want. The $150 is reasonable to YOU. You are offering $1800 a year to be covered for all things major that might cost 10s of thousands of dollars if you ever have to actually use your coverage. I obviously have no more idea than you about the costs but your offer seems way too low to me.

If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.

i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

not all people work in corporate america, some people are bartenders, taxi drivers, etc and these people cant afford what priv ins companies ask for.

next time she hurts herself well just leave our wallet at the house and go to the hospital bleeding and not have any identification and get free but albeit slow service.

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.

and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.
i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

...

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.
and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.

You include pregnancy as one of the basic services to be covered - you do realize that pregnancy is one of those really expensive services in part due to malpractice issues. What about truly major medical shock trauma issues - those helicopters ain't cheap? How much should it cost for "basic services"? Find an actuary, describe the services and the population that has to pay it and ask him. Otherwise your just blowing smoke. I mean, you do know how insurance works ... right??

I agree that costs are the issue. As for the specific costs you mention - again, where's your basis for assesing the accuracy. How much does the machine cost to purchase? to maintain? How much does it cost to train the techs? What's there salary? What are the liability issues? Seriously - does your firm do a cost analysis, market comparison in determining your hourly rate? Or do they do you just charge by the hour on what "feels" right?

On a larger scale - what is your plan for lowering medical costs? How do you intend to revamp the system. Sure the stent issue is obvious malpractice - now. A lot of these "unnecessary procedures", however, are litigation fodder when someone is injured and a test that might have alerted the doctor to a problem exists but was not used. So, just to be safe, test away. You can drive up costs for treatment (increased testing) or drive up doctor's (and therefor patient) costs for malpractice insurance (decreased testing). Take your pick.

As was discussed ad nauseum earlier in this thread - the health care system is broken and needs to be completely revamped. That is just not going to happen now - we got our "reform". Count me as one of those who thinks it is just pumping more money into a fractured system and is only a very short-term, expensive band-aid.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

If its anything more than 150 bucks a month then she would just get a priv health care coverage. if people could afford 200 a month on health care there wouldnt be people walking around without it.

150 bucks a month to cover a person for emergency visits and preganancies is absurd? your absurd.

i pay close to alil over 200 a month and i am covered for every freakin lil thing but i am fortunate to be an attorney with a good employer plan.

not all people work in corporate america, some people are bartenders, taxi drivers, etc and these people cant afford what priv ins companies ask for.

next time she hurts herself well just leave our wallet at the house and go to the hospital bleeding and not have any identification and get free but albeit slow service.

if 150 a mo for basic services is absurd, how much do you think people should pay for ins a mo under the new health care plan? the whole issue is lowering costs! it shouldnt cost thousands of dollars to take an MRI or 450 bucks for a med tech to take 3 mins in reding an MRI or xray.

and drs are racking up unneccesary treatments for people with health insurance to rack up the bills. see dr in balt city who was implanting 100s of unnecessary stents in peoples veins for money.

Most doctors are doing those extra test to avoid having an attorney sue them because the guy with a cough ended up keeling over because the doctor missed something. My buddy pays $109,000 for malpractice ins. and has never had a claim in his 25 yrs. I guess you missed the link I provided that shows rates for your 30 yr old girlfriend for under $200 a month. I'm guessing if she cannot afford a couple hundred a month for health coverage she must not have a cell phone, cable, or INTERNET access. Is that true?

[firstdown]

I wish I knew the answer on how to fix the problem. The only thing I do know is that everything government does they say will cost one thing then it turn out costing triple and that the last thing we need.