2011 NFL Draft

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

After vascillating a bit on this, I think I am most comfortable with this scenario. Locker has alot of Plummer like qualities and the Snake played well under Shanny's system. Trading back a little, picking up an addidtional pick and still getting Locker would be ideal.

I just don't believe in this strategy when it comes to QBs. It's fine if you have a list of 4 defensive players on the board that you love and think you can add picks and still get one by moving down. But the QB position is unique...If Shanny likes him enough to be his franchise QB then you just quit fooling around and draft him at #10. If they trade down and open up the possibility of the Vikes taking locker at #12 then in my mind the only conclusion I am left with is they don't like Locker all that much. And if they only sort of like him then I don't think I want him here...

[30gut]

Edit.....On second thought nevermind.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by celts32

I just don't believe in this strategy when it comes to QBs. It's fine if you have a list of 4 defensive players on the board that you love and think you can add picks and still get one by moving down. But the QB position is unique...If Shanny likes him enough to be his franchise QB then you just quit fooling around and draft him at #10. If they trade down and open up the possibility of the Vikes taking locker at #12 then in my mind the only conclusion I am left with is they don't like Locker all that much. And if they only sort of like him then I don't think I want him here...

Mike Shanahan seems very decisive and self-assured, but his history shows some indecision, or at least struggling, w/some of his qb moves. Recently, we saw that in 2010 when he first pulled mcnabb. His story just wasn't straight, like he wasn't quite sure why he did it. I know he may have been taking the heat for his son. Then rex becomes the starter late in the year, this after Shanahan & co. traded JC & brought mcnabb here as the qb. Go back to denver & look at his history of pulling plummer, brister, etc.

My point is that he's likely quite far from being that sold on Locker, Newton or many others. Even if he likes Locker a lot, if he feels he can get him later, he'll try that. I wonder if he's truly that sold on him. My guess is that w/limited picks in the early rounds, he's not taking him at #10.

[Defensewins]

I just don't see JL as so great that he is a must have at #10 and I think Shanny's will realize that as well. The other top three or four Qb's are just as good as JL or in some cases/skills better. Locker will and should go around 12 to 32. Keep in mind there will be a good QB or two there when we pick in the second round. I like how pro ready this kid Ponder is, he intrigues me a bit, but I think his stock has risen and will be gone when we pick in second round.
Unless Shanny is skinsfaninok in disguise and must have Locker at all cost, then we would trade down and take Locker. It would be a bad football decision to reach for a player at #10.
I really think it will ultimately depend on if there are any blue chip players left on the board at #10, a stud that can come in an instantly be good IN OUR SYSTEM. If there is not, then they have to trade down.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Mike Shanahan seems very decisive and self-assured, but his history shows some indecision, or at least struggling, w/some of his qb moves. Recently, we saw that in 2010 when he first pulled mcnabb. His story just wasn't straight, like he wasn't quite sure why he did it. I know he may have been taking the heat for his son. Then rex becomes the starter late in the year, this after Shanahan & co. traded JC & brought mcnabb here as the qb. Go back to denver & look at his history of pulling plummer, brister, etc.

My point is that he's likely quite far from being that sold on Locker, Newton or many others. Even if he likes Locker a lot, if he feels he can get him later, he'll try that. I wonder if he's truly that sold on him. My guess is that w/limited picks in the early rounds, he's not taking him at #10.

I hear you...all i am saying is that if he's unsure then i don't really care if we get locker or not. But if he were sold on him I would rather he just take him at 10 rather then fk around with it. I am on record last year that they should have traded whatever it took to get Bradford. There is no price to high for a 10+ year franchise QB. I don't understand sitting back and watching Bradford go to St Louis only to turn around a month later and tell the media you think Bradford is the best QB prospect you have seen in years! That makes no sense to me...

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I just don't see JL as so great that he is a must have at #10 and I think Shanny's will realize that as well. The other top three or four Qb's are just as good as JL or in some cases/skills better. Locker will and should go around 12 to 32. There will be a good QB or two when we pick in the second round.
Unless Shanny is skinsfaninok in disguise and must have Locker at all cost, then we would trade down and take Locker. It would be a bad football decision to reach for a player at #10.
I really think it will ultimately depend on if there are any blue chip players left on the board at #10, a stud that can come in an instantly be good IN OUR SYSTEM. If there is not, then they have to trade down.

This may just be a typo on your part...but if a player is worth the 12th pick then he is surely worth the 10th pick.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by celts32

This may just be a typo on your part...but if a player is worth the 12th pick then he is surely worth the 10th pick.

No, because you trade down and pick up a pick and extra pick a la Darth Hoody and still get Locker.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

No, because you trade down and pick up a pick and extra pick a la Darth Hoody and still get Locker.

You just said Locker is good enough to go as early as 12th. So how do you trade down and still get Locker? If a player is good enough to go anywhere from 12 to 32 then he's also good enough to go 10th. Your trade down would make more sense if you thought the earliest Locker would go was 25 or lower.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by celts32

I hear you...all i am saying is that if he's unsure then i don't really care if we get locker or not. But if he were sold on him I would rather he just take him at 10 rather then fk around with it. I am on record last year that they should have traded whatever it took to get Bradford. There is no price to high for a 10+ year franchise QB. I don't understand sitting back and watching Bradford go to St Louis only to turn around a month later and tell the media you think Bradford is the best QB prospect you have seen in years! That makes no sense to me...

I see your point & I agree if it's a guy like Bradford or Luck. My guess is that St. Louis wanted way too much for that pick & we didn't have it. I say that because later in the spring we made a deal w/St. Louis for Carriker.

Part of what I'm saying is, maybe Shanny et al are just as perplexed about some of these guys as we are. I would bet that we'll take a qb in the 2nd or after a trade back in the 1st, but they won't gamble on one w/the #10. Just basing that on what we've seen of MS & BA so far.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I see your point & I agree if it's a guy like Bradford or Luck. My guess is that St. Louis wanted way too much for that pick & we didn't have it. I say that because later in the spring we made a deal w/St. Louis for Carriker.

Part of what I'm saying is, maybe Shanny et al are just as perplexed about some of these guys as we are. I would bet that we'll take a qb in the 2nd or after a trade back in the 1st, but they won't gamble on one w/the #10. Just basing that on what we've seen of MS & BA so far.

If thats the case and they are perplexed then they should trade back again in the 2nd round before taking a QB.

I don't buy the whole "the price was to high" argument teams use for not getting a trade done. When it's a franchise QB and future picks can be used there is no price you can't pay. Take the famous chart value from going from #4 up to #1 and start there...then you keep adding picks until you get a yes. babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky were traded...Every player has a price tag. This is a QB league now more then ever...you are not even in the game until you have one.

[MTK]

Locker doesn't strike me as a "gotta have" kinda guy. I'm ok with potentially missing out on him. It's not like he's a Sam Bradford type of prospect. That's the kind of prospect you go hard after. Not someone like Locker who could possibly fall out of the first round.

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Locker doesn't strike me as a "gotta have" kinda guy. I'm ok with potentially missing out on him. It's not like he's a Sam Bradford type of prospect. That's the kind of prospect you go hard after. Not someone like Locker who could possibly fall out of the first round.

Exactly. Trade down, aquire picks and try to get Locker. If he gets snatched before us then look to Ponder or another player.

If the option to trade down is there at #10 then you have to pull the trigger. Extra pick means extra player. Is Locker worth 2 picks (1st and a 2/3)?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by celts32

If thats the case and they are perplexed then they should trade back again in the 2nd round before taking a QB.

I don't buy the whole "the price was to high" argument teams use for not getting a trade done. When it's a franchise QB and future picks can be used there is no price you can't pay. Take the famous chart value from going from #4 up to #1 and start there...then you keep adding picks until you get a yes. babe Ruth and Wayne Gretzky were traded...Every player has a price tag. This is a QB league now more then ever...you are not even in the game until you have one.

You have to consider B. Allen & Shanahan's position though. They just took over & were tasked w/transforming the culture & team; trading away the whole draft a la M.ditka for Ricky williams, would be a tough way to start that.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

You have to consider B. Allen & Shanahan's position though. They just took over & were tasked w/transforming the culture & team; trading away the whole draft a la M.ditka for Ricky williams, would be a tough way to start that.

I see your point...my problem is more with him gushing over bradford after the fact. If Shanny felt that strongly i would be on board with whatever he traded away.

[Son Of Man]

I seem to recall alot of folks on here (ahem...including myself) knocking Bradford and saying we shouldn't pick him at #4, let alone trading up. Hindsight is 20/20.