2009 Free Agents

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

This is still the FA thread right...

... with Willis signing again in Seattle I'm wondering/maybe hoping we don't make another FA move till after the draft. I see it this way: we're desperate for one starter at LB and probably another quality guy for depth, desperate for a LDE starter, and we probably need a much better option at RT. I guess you could throw center in there too but I have the feeling Buges is far from giving up on Rabach so if we take a center it will only be a depth pick later in the draft. So we need 2 or 3 legit starters between now and opening day and in the best case scenario we trade back and somehow get a couple starters w/ our first 2 picks. Probably we only get one starter from the draft regardless of a trade and in that case we still need 1 or 2 starters acquired in FA. I tend to think the best bet will come after the draft then as teams cut players. We're basically looking for leftovers... but leftovers are probably much better than our current options at SLB, DE and even RT.

... FA IMHO hasn't been real impressive. Dock fell into our laps and that's nice but we desperately need upgrades at RT and LB (and now LDE) and not one of those spots were addressed. Actually what's amazing is this is the 2nd offseason in a row we had these exact same needs and somehow the FO hasn't been able to get it done... actually kind of baffling for a simple fan.

Last offseason the biggest needs (according to many) were among wideouts and the defensive line. Honestly, the FO has been average to me, although kinda hard to judge them since the offseason is not over.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Last offseason the biggest needs (according to many) were among wideouts and the defensive line. Honestly, the FO has been average to me, although kinda hard to judge them since the offseason is not over.

The o-line completely fell apart on '07. Jansen and Thomas had their season ending injures. Rabach wasn't very good. Basically we didn't do anything to improve that group going into '08 other than hope and pray Jansen and Thomas had awesome rebound years and Heyer would improve a lot. Heyer didn't improve and worse yet looks to be injury prone for such a young player, obviously Thomas and Jansen didn't rebound. I'm not disagreeing w/ you Ruh on the WR and d-line situations, just making the point we've had desperate needs in several areas that we haven't really addressed. Dock really was a gift even though I totally agree w/ people who also realize he's not gonna solve the whole problem there: we need new talent on the o-line.

... for what it's worth I though the d-line has been in far better shape than it's offensive counterpart over the last couple years and w/ the decline/departure of Marcus I'd thought LB was also a priority over d-line. I just remember Williams saying Monty had the potential to be a dominant player instead of just a decent rotational DT... every year i keep hoping he breaks out and that's part of the reason i thought d-line could be a lower priority than our decrepit o-lineman and an aging LB corp. (BTW wouldn't it be off the hook if Monty has a breakout season now... would allow us to put AH all over the place on the LOS cuz he's so versatile). But i haven't at all given up on the off-season, just hoping we get lucky w/ 2 or 3 gems (surprise cuts maybe) prior to camp starting.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The o-line completely fell apart on '07. Jansen and Thomas had their season ending injures. Rabach wasn't very good. Basically we didn't do anything to improve that group going into '08 other than hope and pray Jansen and Thomas had awesome rebound years and Heyer would improve a lot. Heyer didn't improve and worse yet looks to be injury prone for such a young player, obviously Thomas and Jansen didn't rebound. I'm not disagreeing w/ you Ruh on the WR and d-line situations, just making the point we've had desperate needs in several areas that we haven't really addressed.

... for what it's worth I though the d-line has been in far better shape than it's offensive counterpart over the last couple years and w/ the decline/departure of Marcus I'd thought LB was also a priority of d-line. But i haven't at all given up on the off-season, just hoping we get lucky w/ 2 or 3 gems (surprise cuts maybe) prior to camp starting.

Ah gotcha. I think the problem is that...well I don't know if the FO listened too much to the sports pundits, like we the fans sometimes do. And I tell you that because I was big into the Redskins getting a WR or getting Chad Johnson, thinking that this was the piece that the Redskins needed (a deep threat and/or a possession receiver). Well, all of us that thought this were dead wrong, since it turned out that our offensive line was falling apart.

[53Fan]

When you have as many needs as we have it's hard to address them all with really good players in one year. Plus I think we were thrown a curve with the whole JT thing. I think we've made some improvements but I don't think we're done yet.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Ah gotcha. I think the problem is that...well I don't know if the FO listened too much to the sports pundits, like we the fans sometimes do. And I tell you that because I was big into the Redskins getting a WR or getting Chad Johnson, thinking that this was the piece that the Redskins needed (a deep threat and/or a possession receiver). Well, all of us that thought this were dead wrong, since it turned out that our offensive line was falling apart.

No not wrong at all IMO. We did need that kind of standout possession receiver and 20/20 kinda seems like we'd been better off getting that talent in FA (last offseason) and using the '08 draft to build the lines. Don't know if Ocho was the answer but just a guy, like what we got in Moss, who could come in and be an immediate factor, which rookie WRs rarely are. I remember thinking after the '07 playoff loss we needed help at WR... but I basically assumed there was no question about the o-line needing new blood.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

When you have as many needs as we have it's hard to address them all with really good players in one year. Plus I think we were thrown a curve with the whole JT thing. I think we've made some improvements but I don't think we're done yet.

I think in the end we won't be able to address everything we need. I know it sounds bad, but that's just the reality. I mean look at Tampa Bay, they have a ton of cap money and they haven't acquired anyone. I don't know what are their needs, but with all that cap space, you'd imagine they acquire some big name free agent after releasing a whole bunch of their veterans. To be honest, I don't even know who is their current QB.

[The Goat]

... btw I've bought a ticket on the "draft Mack" train, but only if we can 1) trade down w/ the lions and get their 1st and 2nd round picks 2) draft Mack and a LB starter w/ those two picks. The only thing bugging me is it means we have to address LDE in FA and also IMHO a legit RT too. Daniels/Wynn can do the job @ DE by rotating, neither guy you'd want to stay in there three downs. RT is a tough call. I'm scared to death about going into yet another season w/ Jansen/Heyer for our only options. It never turns out well right? Jansen shouldn't even be considered a RT anymore... he can be an interior backup for one year until he's cut. Anyway I think we'd be wise to get a legit RT in FA, if not the draft, and let he and Heyer compete for the starter's spot. Let the best dude win

[53Fan]

I'm not even sure if Tampa knows who their QB is. We're probably just going to have to decide which position is the weakest with who we have right now. We need RT but could Heyer handle that position better than say Blades could handle OLB? But then again you don't want to pass up someone who you think would truly be outstanding at one of those positions. I don't think we'll be nearly as bad this year as some seem to think.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think in the end we won't be able to address everything we need. I know it sounds bad, but that's just the reality. I mean look at Tampa Bay, they have a ton of cap money and they haven't acquired anyone. I don't know what are their needs, but with all that cap space, you'd imagine they acquire some big name free agent after releasing a whole bunch of their veterans. To be honest, I don't even know who is their current QB.

I don't want to give up hope yet Ruh. Again, Daniels/Wynn rotating fix the LDE problem for a year. Sure it's not what we all hoped for but it's a short term fix. That leaves o-line and LB. I mean maybe we get lucky and draft 2 starters in a trade-back scenario. Maybe we just get one standout at 13 in Oher, Rey and then we hope to hell we have a gem fall to us at the other position the way Hall and Dock fell to us. We're kind of on a lucky streak...

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I don't want to give up hope yet Ruh. Again, Daniels/Wynn rotating fix the LDE problem for a year. Sure it's not what we all hoped for but it's a short term fix. That leaves o-line and LB. I mean maybe we get lucky and draft 2 starters in a trade-back scenario. Maybe we just get one standout at 13 in Oher, Rey and then we hope to hell we have a gem fall to us at the other position the way Hall and Dock fell to us. We're kind of on a lucky streak...

Well that's what I meant, you've given a good example of an area that we wouldn't address, and just patch up for this year. And I think with AH, Carter, and Griff, we should be able to plug a decent player at LDE for the year (or like you said, rotate Daniels/Wynn). I think LB is a concern, as well as the offensive line. But if we don't need to address the DE this year,then we can focus on LB and the offensive line.

Although, we still have a ways to go (the period between now and the draft and the draft itself) before we can say whether or not things have been addressed.

[53Fan]

Glad to have you on the Mack train Goat. I look at it this way. Say we really want help at strong safety and our LT is a pretty good player nearing the end as an elite tackle. Jonathen Ogden is on the board, but there are some pretty good safties out there too. The best ones will be gone by the time you pick or have some questions about them but there are some others with some pretty good upside available later on. You can get by with the SS you have for at least one more year. Do you pass on Ogden even though he will be an all pro player who will make your line better for many, many years and take a pretty good safety because you want to improve that position right now? Or do you take a guy who will be the cornerstone of your line for years even though you could get by at that position for a while longer?

[The Goat]

... btw did Marcus sign somewhere cuz i'm not seeing him listed on the ESPN FA tracker.

[GTripp0012]

Daniels and Wynn are a fine one year solution at LE. Excellent even at vet min prices. But the pass rush then has to come in part from the linebacker position, where we currently sport HB Blades, who can't rush the passer, Rocky McIntosh, who can't rush the passer, and soon-to-be Khary Campbell, who can't really get on the field on defense.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Daniels and Wynn are a fine one year solution at LE. Excellent even at vet min prices. But the pass rush then has to come in part from the linebacker position, where we currently sport HB Blades, who can't rush the passer, Rocky McIntosh, who can't rush the passer, and soon-to-be Khary Campbell, who can't really get on the field on defense.

I heard about this kid Rey who can really rush the f'ing passer...

Seriously, I think a monster addition to LB shores up the defense assuming we stopgap LDE w/ Daniels/Wynn.

... we've spent so much money there I'm tempted to just say f it and go all the way. We have to get the best possible FA at OT in that case but we haven't even heard anything brewing...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I heard about this kid Rey who can really rush the f'ing passer...

Seriously, I think a monster addition to LB shores up the defense assuming we stopgap LDE w/ Daniels/Wynn.

... we've spent so much money there I'm tempted to just say f it and go all the way. We have to get the best possible FA at OT in that case but we haven't even heard anything brewing...

OT market:

Player, age

J. Runyan, 35
T. Thomas, 34
Marv. Smith, 31
M. Tauscher, 32
Oli. Ross, 34
Br. Gorin, 31
J. St. Clair, 32

That's pretty much why Willis stood out.

If I put Jansen on this list, he'd be between Marvel Smith, and Tauscher, so most of those guys wouldn't start for us anyway. Runyan might even retire, and he was Jansen's predecessor at Michigan, so he's old as dirt.

On a two year deal, Marvel Smith makes sense for us. But that doesn't eliminate the need to land a tackle at thirteen exactly.