Trayvon Martin Case

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Ill make a $49 donation to the site in your name if you can predict the verdict correctly. I guess you just have to make your prediction before the jury gets back after closing statements.

That's just tough - so many variables. If it's a jury of Chico's or OTM's, he is likley to be found guilty of manslaughter. If it's a jury of G84C's, 2nd degree. If it's a jury of me's, likely to be innocent.

I am going to say not guilty on the 2nd degree and manslaughter. A jury of women will be sympathetic to the death of a child, but not so much so as to outweigh their need for solid proof before condemning another man to prison.

My degree of confidence in this prediction is pretty low. Zimmerman is no saint and we have a dead kid. It's just a tragedy that could have been avoided by both.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

My degree of confidence in this prediction is pretty low. Zimmerman is no saint and we have a dead kid. It's just a tragedy that could have been avoided by both.

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Over zealous curtain-twitcher meets mouthy teenager.

I stick with my original assertion.

Horrible set of circumstances.

[JoeRedskin]

Looking at the testimony today, it highlights the central issue in this matter.

- On Friday, Trayvon's Mom and Brother were certain that the screams heard on the tape were Trayvon's. The Brother less so, but the Mother testified that it was Trayvon "without a doubt".

- So far today, several people who knew Z well testified "without a doubt" the screaming on the tapes was that of Zimmerman.

I don't think any were lying - I thik all firmly believed that they were telling the truth and were convinced of their correctness. Nonetheless, and despite their certainty, someone is wrong and there is simply no way to prove who it is.

[RedskinRat]

The jury has to go with 'Not guilty', anything else would be a travesty.

It doesn't change the fact that the 'Stand your ground' law needs to be revised.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Shiping Bao: Intellectual titan or burbling idiot?

I can't believe someone with his credentials is so inarticulate.

Read the Bao testimony the other day. The bit with his notes was another classic "WTF??" moment by the prosecution. While, ultimately, they ended up, IMO, being non-critical, I was thinking to myself "What? How could the prosecution let him on the stand with anything in his hands, on his person or within his reach that hadn't been preapproved by the prosecutor." Serious nuts and bolts trial work.

My standard instruction is, bring nothing with you to Court I haven't seen and reviewed with you. Don't take anything to the stand unless I have put it in your hands. No notes, no documents, no business cards, etc. Don't have your briefcase in your car. Nothing, nothing, nothing. If you think you need something, give it to me. I have had folks dump out their wallets to make sure they didn't have something they shouldn't.

I just laughed when the guy said "I would prefer not to show you my notes." Tough sh** bozo - I get to see them; Hope you gave a copy of your handwritten notes to your attorney before I look at these, b/c, after you have referred to them during my questioning, I get them first.

[Dirtbag59]

It sucks that this case got so much publicity way before trial. Certainly didn't help that myself and likely a good amount other people found out about it when Wade and LeBron brought awareness to it after Gabrielle Union told Wade about it in spite of only very basic facts being known.

I mean its so hard to sort through who has an agenda and what the cold hard facts are. At the very least though I've believed for a while now that Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter. Mainly because we know that he was told not to pursue Martin and he did anyway leading to the situation we have now.

Anything beyond that is tricky. Yes Zimmerman was punched but he wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete. It's possible that Martin initiated the first exchange of words and may have even backtracked to hit Zimmerman.

It also doesn't help that both have less then stellar character references. Zimmerman has the 2005 arrest and an accusation of domestic violence. Martin suspended for a pot residue bag at school and rumors of him punching a bus driver.

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

It sucks that this case got so much publicity way before trial. Certainly didn't help that myself and likely a good amount other people found out about it when Wade and LeBron brought awareness to it after Gabrielle Union told Wade about it in spite of only very basic facts being known.

I mean its so hard to sort through who has an agenda and what the cold hard facts are. At the very least though I've believed for a while now that Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter. Mainly because we know that he was told not to pursue Martin and he did anyway leading to the situation we have now.

Anything beyond that is tricky. Yes Zimmerman was punched but he wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete. It's possible that Martin initiated the first exchange of words and may have even backtracked to hit Zimmerman.

It also doesn't help that both have less then stellar character references. Zimmerman has the 2005 arrest and an accusation of domestic violence. Martin suspended for a pot residue bag at school and rumors of him punching a bus driver.

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

First, I think most of what you've said incredibly reasonable.

As for the bolded part, just don't know whether we can say with any certainty that Zimmerman "wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete." Even the prosecutor's medical expert, who testified on direct that the lacerations were consistent with a single strike against the concrete, admitted on cross exam that they could have resulted from multiple strikes against concrete and that Martin could have punched Zimmerman multiple times.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

Agree 100%.

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Agree 100%.

no where near being a riot you guys are so ill informed about what caused the LA riots. It was the fact [people were tired of the long history of he LA PD and that was the last straw. riots don;t happen off of isolated incidents. Frustration has to build up over time. But that won't fit into Rush Limbaugh narrative, not as entertaining. He is gonna do some time not sure how much though. His rectum is gonna be re-sized.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

It sucks that this case got so much publicity way before trial. Certainly didn't help that myself and likely a good amount other people found out about it when Wade and LeBron brought awareness to it after Gabrielle Union told Wade about it in spite of only very basic facts being known.

I mean its so hard to sort through who has an agenda and what the cold hard facts are. At the very least though I've believed for a while now that Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter. Mainly because we know that he was told not to pursue Martin and he did anyway leading to the situation we have now.

Anything beyond that is tricky. Yes Zimmerman was punched but he wasn't punched as nearly as many times as he said and his head certainly wasn't slammed repeatedly into concrete. It's possible that Martin initiated the first exchange of words and may have even backtracked to hit Zimmerman.

It also doesn't help that both have less then stellar character references. Zimmerman has the 2005 arrest and an accusation of domestic violence. Martin suspended for a pot residue bag at school and rumors of him punching a bus driver.

Regardless it's a huge mess. Hopefully whatever the verdict we don't end up with another riot.

How do we know that?

[firstdown]

They say all of this was caused by one blow to the back of the head. Then we have the pic of his face which shows he suffered a broken nose.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

His rectum is gonna be re-sized.

Check out the homoerotic imagination on G84C!

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Nonetheless, and despite their certainty, someone is wrong and there is simply no way to prove who it is.

Can't they tell via voice analysis?

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

That's just tough - so many variables. If it's a jury of Chico's or OTM's, he is likley to be found guilty of manslaughter. If it's a jury of G84C's, 2nd degree. If it's a jury of me's, likely to be innocent.

I am going to say not guilty on the 2nd degree and manslaughter. A jury of women will be sympathetic to the death of a child, but not so much so as to outweigh their need for solid proof before condemning another man to prison.

My degree of confidence in this prediction is pretty low. Zimmerman is no saint and we have a dead kid. It's just a tragedy that could have been avoided by both.

Unfortunately we are still without robot juries.

Feel free to change you prediction prior to any decisions are known/made.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Can't they tell via voice analysis?

I know there was discussion but remember reading that, due to the other sounds on the recording, there simply was not enough tape of the "clean" sample to get a reasonably reliable analysis. Both sides had experts but pretty sure both were prohibited b/c they couldn't say anything to a "reasonable degree of scientific certainty".