Campbell's numbers dont lie

[SolidSnake84]

I'm late getting involved in this thread, but i can't see how there is anything to even compare Jason Campbell to Donovan McNabb.

Even if we look at only their NFL careers, McNabb has been surperior in every aspect to Campbell. That's obvious. His multiple Pro Bowls, Championship Games, and lone Superbowl Appearance all attest to that.

Dating back farther, in college, McNabb also put up the surperior numbers and people knew that he would be going to the NFL. It's shocking how Jason did much of the same thing he does here down in Auburn, according to Al Borges...

No comparison between Campbell and McNabb...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I'm late getting involved in this thread, but i can't see how there is anything to even compare Jason Campbell to Donovan McNabb.

Even if we look at only their NFL careers, McNabb has been surperior in every aspect to Campbell. That's obvious. His multiple Pro Bowls, Championship Games, and lone Superbowl Appearance all attest to that.

Dating back farther, in college, McNabb also put up the surperior numbers and people knew that he would be going to the NFL. It's shocking how Jason did much of the same thing he does here down in Auburn, according to Al Borges...

No comparison between Campbell and McNabb...

Well, when you've been a quarterback in the same place McNabb has for more than ten years, you're bound to run into a string of success.

I frequently ask myself if there's anything that he does so consistently well, game in and game out, that makes him such an irreplaceable part of the Philly offense. And I've come to the conclusion that: McNabb is a very, very good player, and has been so for a long time, but there's nothing Philly couldn't replace if, say, he went to go play overseas. They proved this, I think, with the Kolb pick. I doubt Kevin Kolb is ever going to be a hall of fame player, but he's a functional piece in a bigger machine, who happens to be blocked by McNabb.

None of this is meant to be disrespectful, as Donovan is valuable year in and year out in the Philly offense. Of course, if the Eagles had taken Ricky Williams instead, McNabb could have gone to the Bengals or the Bears, and you would have never heard from him again. On the other hand, he's a big reason that the Eagles have been able to remain so good for so long. By ignoring the QB position every year, they've been able to build a team that could easily survive a QB swap. Ironically.

For a much shorter time, Campbell offered us stability at the QB position, but if the difference between his career and McNabb's is that, when the going got tough, McNabb labored through it and Campbell fell victim to his teams' offensive suckitude, well, then you'd have to conclude that McNabb is the better player. I'm just not sure that the going ever got tough on McNabb, which is where the comparison falls apart.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, when you've been a quarterback in the same place McNabb has for more than ten years, you're bound to run into a string of success.

I frequently ask myself if there's anything that he does so consistently well, game in and game out, that makes him such an irreplaceable part of the Philly offense. And I've come to the conclusion that: McNabb is a very, very good player, and has been so for a long time, but there's nothing Philly couldn't replace if, say, he went to go play overseas. They proved this, I think, with the Kolb pick. I doubt Kevin Kolb is ever going to be a hall of fame player, but he's a functional piece in a bigger machine, who happens to be blocked by McNabb.

None of this is meant to be disrespectful, as Donovan is valuable year in and year out in the Philly offense. Of course, if the Eagles had taken Ricky Williams instead, McNabb could have gone to the Bengals or the Bears, and you would have never heard from him again. On the other hand, he's a big reason that the Eagles have been able to remain so good for so long. By ignoring the QB position every year, they've been able to build a team that could easily survive a QB swap. Ironically.

For a much shorter time, Campbell offered us stability at the QB position, but if the difference between his career and McNabb's is that, when the going got tough, McNabb labored through it and Campbell fell victim to his teams' offensive suckitude, well, then you'd have to conclude that McNabb is the better player. I'm just not sure that the going ever got tough on McNabb, which is where the comparison falls apart.

Great post GT.

I would add that McNabb seems more comfortable in a leadership role. McNabb also got through his early years by running a lot as he was not very accurate w/the ball.

As for the going getting tough on him, I think he's endured his fair share of negative publicity and handled it extremely well. Start w/draft day when the philly fans wanted R. Williams. Then the Rush Limbaugh & TO comments. Plus the philly fans are just brutal. WE may be passionate, but they are passionate neanderthals.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

It's shocking how Jason did much of the same thing he does here down in Auburn, according to Al Borges...

I gotta call BS on this statement.
You seem to imply that Borges said something negative about Campbell.
But, that is far from the truth.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true

Borges isn't buying that Campbell can't run the scheme because the West Coast system is what he ran at Auburn when Campbell blossomed. However, Borges said he tweaked the offense to take advantage of the powerful run game and Campbell's big arm. So, instead of dinking and dunking horizontally and relying on timing and receivers to make yards after the reception, Borges implemented more play-action and vertical passing.
"As much as we threw that underneath stuff, we could get it downfield," Borges said. "He could make all the throws; short, intermediate, deep. When he played in 2004, he played lights out. This kid threw almost 70 percent of his passes complete. What's phenomenal about it, his completions were over 10 yards an attempt. That's just not done. He's accurate. Matt Leinart won the Heisman at a 66 percent completion rate with a lower yards-per-catch."

[SolidSnake84]

You've also posted the part that paints the best picture of Campbell.

The part i was talking about Borges saying is how they constantly had to motivate Jason and make him believe in himself. How Jason didn't necessarily play 'scared', but he was overly cautious and they had to convince him mentally that things were going ok and he would be ok. Jason had issues with his self-confidence and mental state and it would affect him and what they did on the field. The coaches and players always had to motivate him. Here's from the article:

"So much of getting Jason to play well was just trying to work with him from the neck up," said Borges, now the offensive coordinator at San Diego State. "We worked fundamentals and all that but just trying to get his psyche right, to convince him that he was a good player, the player people thought he could be, was how we got so much out of him."


Borges said he hasn't seen Campbell play this season and he hasn't spoken to him for months. However, he knows the introverted Campbell functions best when he's confident and when he has a running game to ease the pressure on him. He also said Campbell needs support from his coaches, which coach Jim Zorn seemingly gave him until he benched him against the Chiefs.



"He has to know that you believe in him," Borges said. "When I got him after two years there, he was pretty beat up mentally. He played 'concerned.' Not scared, but he played like he was afraid to make a mistake, so he didn't play well. We had to get him to take a 'let-it-rip' mentality. If he made a mistake, I took the blame. Bad play call. Once he realized we believed in him, he played to his capability. He did whatever we told him to. We told him not to do certain things, he didn't do them.
"Ninety percent of teaching is believing in the pupil and him knowing you believe in him. He believed that we believed in him."

If that doesnt sound like a guy who had self-confidence problems i dont know what did.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

"So much of getting Jason to play well was just trying to work with him from the neck up," said Borges, now the offensive coordinator at San Diego State. "We worked fundamentals and all that but just trying to get his psyche right, to convince him that he was a good player, the player people thought he could be, was how we got so much out of him."

Borges said he hasn't seen Campbell play this season and he hasn't spoken to him for months. However, he knows the introverted Campbell functions best when he's confident and when he has a running game to ease the pressure on him. He also said Campbell needs support from his coaches, which coach Jim Zorn seemingly gave him until he benched him against the Chiefs.

"He has to know that you believe in him," Borges said. "When I got him after two years there, he was pretty beat up mentally. He played 'concerned.' Not scared, but he played like he was afraid to make a mistake, so he didn't play well. We had to get him to take a 'let-it-rip' mentality. If he made a mistake, I took the blame. Bad play call. Once he realized we believed in him, he played to his capability. He did whatever we told him to. We told him not to do certain things, he didn't do them.
"Ninety percent of teaching is believing in the pupil and him knowing you believe in him. He believed that we believed in him."

If that doesnt sound like a guy who had self-confidence problems i dont know what did.

How does that make him sound like he has self-confidence problems?
Because he needs support to succeed?
Borges describes what any QB or PG/SG primary ball handler in basketball(which i used to coach) needs to succeed.
If you don't understand that your star player has to know that you trust them implicitly you don't understand team sports.

Here's an example from Brett Favre watch this video from NFL.com:
Watch the 1:38 mark to the 2:03 mark
Green Bay Packers
Favre on Favre
NFL Videos: Favre on Favre


"The coaches that he [Holmgren] hired for me couldn't have been better.
I can tell you numerous times when those guys would take the heat for me. He [Andy Reid] covered for me (refering to the clip)...Mike knew...but somebody had to get yelled at fortunately it was them most of the time"

You've also posted the part that paints the best picture of Campbell.

You are attributing your opinion negative opinion of Jason to Al Borges, which clearly isn't within the article.
Borges said that Jason was a mentally beat up QB when he[Borges] came to Auburn after splitting time as a freshman and having different OC each season.

The part i was talking about Borges saying is how they constantly had to motivate Jason and make him believe in himself. How Jason didn't necessarily play 'scared', but he was overly cautious and they had to convince him mentally that things were going ok and he would be ok.

Your statement is rife with inaccuracies.
YOU:

constantly had to motivate Jason and make him believe in himself.

Borges:

Once he realized we believed in him, he played to his capability

He doesn't describe a 'constant' process to motivate Jason.

Jason had issues with his self-confidence and mental state and it would affect him and what they did on the field. The coaches and players always had to motivate him.

^^ENTIRELY YOUR OPINION no where within the article does Borges say anything remotely resembling this statement.

Remember your orginal statement?
The casual passer by would read that statement and take you at word that Borges said something negative about JC's play here or at Auburn, which isn't the case.

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

It's shocking how Jason did much of the same thing he does here down in Auburn, according to Al Borges...

[Monkeydad]

UPDATED stats/assessment...Campbell the only of these 3 QBs to win!

Cutler:
WK 10 - 29/52 (55.8%), 307 yds, 0 TD, 5 INT, 33.6 rating, 2 rush yds
TOTAL: 211/338 (62.4%), 2,353 yds, 14 TD, 17 INT, 76.0 rating, 111 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 10 - 16/30 (53.3%), 212 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT, 59.3 rating, 0 rush yds
TOTAL: 130/244 (53.3%), 1,655 yds, 9 TD, 12 INT, 66.5 rating, 60 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 10 - 17/26 (65.4%), 193 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT, 100.3 rating, 15 rush yds
TOTAL: 168/254 (66.1%), 1,870 yds, 10 TD, 8 INT, 87.9 rating, 158 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campbell (66.1%), Cutler (62.4%), Sanchez (53.3%)
Yds = Cutler (2,353) Campbell (1,870) Sanchez (1,655)
TDs = Cutler (14), Campbell (10), Sanchez (9)
INTs (fewest) = Campbell (8), Sanchez (12), Cutler (17)
QB rating = Campbell (87.9), Cutler (76.0), Sanchez (66.5)
Rush yds = Campbell (158), Cutler (111), Sanchez(60)


Week 10 Campbell overview:
JC was the only of the three QBs whose team won in Week 10. He was also the only who had a good game, finishing with a TD and no INTs, 65% completions and a passer rating over 100. Cutler and Sanchez both had horrible games again. Cutler put up some yards with over 300, but had a low completion %, no touchdowns and FIVE (5) interceptions! Sanchez had yet another inaccurate, low-yardage game with more INTs than TDs as he continues to be unimpressive, even with the addition of Braylon Edwards. Campbell still leads in every stat category except for yards and TDs, but he has less than half of the interceptions as Cutler, who cancels out all of his TDs and then some with 14 TDs and 17 INTs.

Campbell is the NFL's 16th-highest rated passer, ahead of hyped QBs like Matt Ryan (20th), Jay Cutler (22nd), Matt Cassel (23rd), Mark Sanchez (27th). Campbell is just behind Eli Manning and Carson Palmer in the rankings and every one of the QBs ranked ahead of him are Pro Bowl-caliber, household names. Given the whole offense's struggles, the offensive line problems he's had to endure, losing his biggest-name playmakers in Portis and Cooley, I think Jason is doing more than an aqdeuate, but a quality job running the offense to the best of his abilities. It's clear that he's a better choice than Cutler and especially Sanchez.

Now on to beat Dallas.


Still looking like we made the right choice.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Buster

UPDATED stats/assessment...Campbell the only of these 3 QBs to win!

Cutler:
WK 10 - 29/52 (55.8%), 307 yds, 0 TD, 5 INT, 33.6 rating, 2 rush yds
TOTAL: 211/338 (62.4%), 2,353 yds, 14 TD, 17 INT, 76.0 rating, 111 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 10 - 16/30 (53.3%), 212 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT, 59.3 rating, 0 rush yds
TOTAL: 130/244 (53.3%), 1,655 yds, 9 TD, 12 INT, 66.5 rating, 60 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 10 - 17/26 (65.4%), 193 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT, 100.3 rating, 15 rush yds
TOTAL: 168/254 (66.1%), 1,870 yds, 10 TD, 8 INT, 87.9 rating, 158 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campbell (66.1%), Cutler (62.4%), Sanchez (53.3%)
Yds = Cutler (2,353) Campbell (1,870) Sanchez (1,655)
TDs = Cutler (14), Campbell (10), Sanchez (9)
INTs (fewest) = Campbell (8), Sanchez (12), Cutler (17)
QB rating = Campbell (87.9), Cutler (76.0), Sanchez (66.5)
Rush yds = Campbell (158), Cutler (111), Sanchez(60)


Week 10 Campbell overview:
JC was the only of the three QBs whose team won in Week 10. He was also the only who had a good game, finishing with a TD and no INTs, 65% completions and a passer rating over 100. Cutler and Sanchez both had horrible games again. Cutler put up some yards with over 300, but had a low completion %, no touchdowns and FIVE (5) interceptions! Sanchez had yet another inaccurate, low-yardage game with more INTs than TDs as he continues to be unimpressive, even with the addition of Braylon Edwards. Campbell still leads in every stat category except for yards and TDs, but he has less than half of the interceptions as Cutler, who cancels out all of his TDs and then some with 14 TDs and 17 INTs.

Campbell is the NFL's 16th-highest rated passer, ahead of hyped QBs like Matt Ryan (20th), Jay Cutler (22nd), Matt Cassel (23rd), Mark Sanchez (27th). Campbell is just behind Eli Manning and Carson Palmer in the rankings and every one of the QBs ranked ahead of him are Pro Bowl-caliber, household names. Given the whole offense's struggles, the offensive line problems he's had to endure, losing his biggest-name playmakers in Portis and Cooley, I think Jason is doing more than an aqdeuate, but a quality job running the offense to the best of his abilities. It's clear that he's a better choice than Cutler and especially Sanchez.

Now on to beat Dallas.


Still looking like we made the right choice.

Thanks for doing this every week Buster.

[warriorzpath]

Just my last 2 cents - the smartest thing I think that anyone can do now is to stay away from this discussion.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Just my last 2 cents - the smartest thing I think that anyone can do now is to stay away from this discussion.

I'm thinking of starting a new thread comparing OchoCinco's numbers to Malcolm Kelly's on a weekly basis. The numbers don't lie!!


Maybe I'll throw in DJ Hackett's just to balance things out

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm thinking of starting a new thread comparing OchoCinco's numbers to Malcolm Kelly's on a weekly basis. The numbers don't lie!!


Maybe I'll throw in DJ Hackett's just to balance things out

Throw in Roy Williams too. Remember how so many people said that they would rather have Williams than Johnson, and wouldn't mind giving up picks for RW, because he was "young." Yeah right.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm thinking of starting a new thread comparing OchoCinco's numbers to Malcolm Kelly's on a weekly basis. The numbers don't lie!!


Maybe I'll throw in DJ Hackett's just to balance things out

lol!

[Monkeydad]

Brunell? :confused:

You're going to have to explain this one.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Buster

Brunell? :confused:

You're going to have to explain this one.

Did you see Soup on the ground in pain the other day?

That reminds me of Brunell. The only difference is that Brunell was smart enough to throw the ball away most of the time.

I used to hate him for that. Now I know why he did it. Who would want to take that kind of punishment?

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Did you see Soup on the ground in pain the other day?

That reminds me of Brunell. The only difference is that Brunell was smart enough to throw the ball away most of the time.

I used to hate him for that. Now I know why he did it. Who would want to take that kind of punishment?

OK, I get it, they're similar QBs because they both ended up on the ground a lot.

Fine assessment.