The Zidane Incident

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The low scoring is not why Americans don't like soccer. For some reason, Americans just don't take to sports where the idea is to put a ball or a puck past a goaltender and into a net.

I've never really thought about that, but that's very true. I know I personally get bored of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth until there's FINALLY a shot on goal. I guess subconciously there's something about the symmetry of sports like that I don't like. Baseball, while very slow to me, is at least a fairly dynamic game when it comes to the "area" it's played in.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

For some reason, Americans just don't take to sports where the idea is to put a ball or a puck past a goaltender and into a net.

Since college I've really started to enjoy lacrosse, although I don't watch it that often b/c its rarely on.
I don't mind goal-oriented sports but they do tend to be rather boring. LAX, to me, is very fast and can be very entertaining.

[724Skinsfan]

It's already been touched on in a couple of posts but interest in a particular sport is relevant to the amount of experience a person has with that sport. I love both high scoring and low scoring baseball games. Football goes the same for me. Another factor to influence a person's interest is the passion an enthusiast has when describing the game. I never had an interest in the Tour de France until some guy (UPS driver) spent about 2 non-stop hours explaining to me what the deal was. I'm in the process of trying to learn to like soccer because the area I live in is trying to develop a solid league for youth.

[BDBohnzie]

Zidane's best play of the World Cup wasn't any of his three goals (2 of which were on PKs), but the beautiful cross he hit to Thierry Henry to beat Brazil 1-0.

There is an arrogance from Americans when it comes to soccer. Not sure why, but the casual fan will never embrace it the way they embrace other sports. I'm a fan of sports in general, so watching soccer is just another reason to sit for a few hours and watch a highly competitive match.

Schneed, your point is taken, but I do think that a big part of why Americans do not like soccer is because of the low scoring. In order to get fans back, it was rumored that baseball "juiced" the balls so that they would fly further, increasing Home Runs and scoring. The NFL have all but outlawed any contact downfield between receivers and corners. The NHL, to bring back fans, have increased scoring chances with smaller creases, smaller goalie pads, and other rule changes. The NBA has become very lax about travelling and other things that slow the game down. These things would haven't happened if Americans didn't care one way or another about low scoring. It's a shame that soccer gets a bad rap because of low scoring...I don't expect it to compete with the big boys, but that's no reason to totally write it off.

But what's funny is, take any rivalry in the US (Yanks/BoSox, Skins/Cowboys, etc), and it will nowhere near match the intensity of the rivalries in Europe.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think anyone disagrees about those rivalries. We know the deal in the rest of the world.

Also, with 1,000 coming up, you might want to give a shout out to BSB.

[724Skinsfan]

BDBohnzie, I somewhat disagree with the baseball juicing to get fans more interested. It wasn't the homeruns themselves that got people excited again, it was McGuire and Sosa competing against one another for the homerun record. No one even remembers who was third or fourth in the league that year, they only remember the competition between two guys.

Sports media coverage is the top influence for attracting national interest in any sport.

[BDBohnzie]

well, during that year, you can attribute 2 things to those guys having such a race...juiced baseballs and juiced bodies.

but you make a good point about the media, and their influence on not just sports but life in general. the media outlets (for the most part) basically decide what you should see and when. what's sad is without the World Cup, there would be more poker and dominos on ESPN and ESPN2 than soccer...

[TheInspector]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

what's sad is without the World Cup, there would be more poker and dominos on ESPN and ESPN2 than soccer...

No shit...what's up with dominoes?...on TV?!?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

well, during that year, you can attribute 2 things to those guys having such a race...juiced baseballs and juiced bodies.

but you make a good point about the media, and their influence on not just sports but life in general. the media outlets (for the most part) basically decide what you should see and when. what's sad is without the World Cup, there would be more poker and dominos on ESPN and ESPN2 than soccer...

Yeah but dude, how do media outlets decide what to put on TV? The ones that bring the most revenue. Which ones bring the most revenue? The ones that advertisers are willing to pay the most for a 30 second ad slot. Which sports are they willing to pay the most for a 30 second ad slot? The sport more people want to watch.

The sports shown on TV and covered in the papers are the ones that fans are most interested in. Fan interest drives what's covered in the media, it's not the media that decides it for us.

When it comes down to it, more Americans want to watch football and baseball than do soccer or hockey. Why? Don't know for sure, but it's not because the media covers football and baseball. That puts the cart before the horse.

It all comes back to the almighty dollar.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

This is kind of like saying that people SHOULD appreciate wine and taste all the subtleties when it's really just how we're raised. We are raised in an unfortunately fast-paced society and I don't see anything wrong with enjoying high scoring action. That's another reason baseball isn't more popular than it is. I believe that the "majority" of sports have their charm and no one is better than the other "value"-wise, but it's something that has a simply subjective entertainment. It's wrong for anyone to say that people are idiots for not enjoying this sport or that sport.

I agree with you about that and you've pointed out the attitude that turns so many people off from soccer, despite it's boring pace.

I do know about soccer. I used to play soccer, as well as basketball and baseball.

Soccer is a boring spectator sport. It has nothing to do with the low scores, as baseball and hockey contain action without a ton of scoring. It's the nature of the game that is boring. The field is HUGE and most of the 90 minutes is spent kicking the ball way down the field only to have the other team return the kick once they can't advance the ball past mid-field. Maybe the field needs made smaller or the goal made larger. Also, ties aren't decided by playing the game in a sudden-death overtime, they have a little kicking contest. It would be like football having an extra-point contest, baseball playing a game of pepper instead of extra innings or basketball having a game of horse to decide the championship.

It's only the most popular sport in the world because it's all they have or can afford in most nations. If OUR football was able to be played in every nation, it would easily be more popular. Look at how crazy fans in Japan or even Mexico go for an exhibition game with our worst teams like the Arizona Cardinals, 49ers and Lions' players who won't even make the team. When I watch NFL-Europe games, the hooligans are out with face paint, jerseys and the stadium is packed in their little 6-team league that has survived a LOT longer than I would've ever predicted. They look like the Raiders fans for the equivalent of a practice squad game or "minor league" game. If the world could have the NFL or MLB, they'd love it. Look at baseball in Japan. The best players come to the United States.

I don't hate soccer. I, like most Americans, just can't stay awake through a whole match. I am beginning to hate the reactions from soccer fans when I can't share their enthusiasm. They always fall back on this talking point of "but you don't understand the nuances of the game". That's crap. I know every soccer rule and have given it many chances to watch it before. I got slightly interested in the 1994 World Cup because the USA team was the best we've ever fielded with Alexi Lalas, Tab Ramos, Tony Meola, etc. I still couldn't love watching it though...the interest was more out of my love for America rather than the love of the sport.

It's ok for people not to like soccer. Well, to some people...it's not. We're expected to "embrace" the game because it will make us look better to the world community. That's a load of crap. Soccer has been pushed in front of us with popularity campaigns since the 1970s and it hasn't taken off. No one will go to the MLS games...no one will suddenly start following Manchester United because they're told to do so. Until the final, which was hyped NONSTOP...poker on ESPN and NASCAR races kicked the World Cup's butt in ratings in the USA. The outdoor AND indoor soccer teams that were in local cities for me have both folded because no one went to the games...and they were championship teams repeatedly!

It's ok if you like soccer. Just don't expect everyone else to. Soccer is a thing like Star Trek or chess tournaments. There's a few people who love it and find a ton of enjoyment in it and that's GREAT for them. Everyone should have a passion. However, when you try to push your passion on everyone else, all you'll accomplish is making people hate it rather than just not caring.

It is people like you that have ruined the game of soccer.

Uh huh...sure. How can someone outside of soccer ruin the game? More than anything it's a combination of the drunken hooligans who kill people over a soccer match...maybe it's the slow pace of the game...maybe it's the pompous attitudes from the soccer "experts"...maybe it's the fact that the equivalent of Dennis Rodman gets rewarded for losing the tournament with his bad temper. Oh wait...Dennis Rodman HELPED his team win. I'm flattered that you think I hold that much influence in the world.


I don't want to start anything personal with a fellow Redskins fan, especially over something like soccer not being popular in our nation. I'm not to blame for that, despite your accusations.

I hope we can go back to cheering for the Redskins with no grudges after this. That's why we're really here. However...I do think you overreacted.

The MVP scored 3 goals in a whole tournament and you stated that's a LOT of scoring...I don't think I have to explain why the sport hasn't taken off after that exchange.

I don't care of you like soccer. Good for you if it makes you happy. Just don't try to talk people into liking something that they just don't like with a tone that they MUST like soccer or they're somehow less of a person.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

There is an arrogance from Americans when it comes to soccer. Not sure why, but the casual fan will never embrace it the way they embrace other sports. I'm a fan of sports in general, so watching soccer is just another reason to sit for a few hours and watch a highly competitive match.

As I've stated, I don't think the arrogance is from Americans. We cheered for curling in the Olympics last winter to root for our own! We'll accept any sport that is entertaining, from speed skating to boxing. That's soccer's problem...it's NOT entertaining.

All of the arrogance is from the people trying to make soccer popular in the USA and have been failing for decades. They're getting frustrated and are now trying to tell us we're less civilized because we don't "understand" the game. I've heard these people say the players are "beautiful like a ballet". Yeah....that sold me.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Maybe some ARENA league soccer?

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah but dude, how do media outlets decide what to put on TV? The ones that bring the most revenue. Which ones bring the most revenue? The ones that advertisers are willing to pay the most for a 30 second ad slot. Which sports are they willing to pay the most for a 30 second ad slot? The sport more people want to watch.

The sports shown on TV and covered in the papers are the ones that fans are most interested in. Fan interest drives what's covered in the media, it's not the media that decides it for us.

When it comes down to it, more Americans want to watch football and baseball than do soccer or hockey. Why? Don't know for sure, but it's not because the media covers football and baseball. That puts the cart before the horse.

It all comes back to the almighty dollar.

Schneed, you've got a point there but there also a way to increase revenues by introducing new features and programming to the viewing public. Done in the right way the media can continue attracting a larger audience which of course brings in more advertising and more money. ESPN isn't just reactionary sports programming, they do a good job of introducing and promoting a lot of new sports entertainment programming.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Buster

Until the final, which was hyped NONSTOP...poker on ESPN and NASCAR races kicked the World Cup's butt in ratings in the USA.

Where'd you hear that?

[BDBohnzie]

Buster - I do get your point. And if soccer's not your cup of tea, so be it. I think some of my hostility came from attacking Zidane (deserved) and then the French as a whole (undeserved). As you are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine.

I also have to remember that for the casual fan and the average person, attention spans are short lived. The one thing Soccer has going for it is the lack of commercial interruption. Games are played in around 2 hours, and you're not constantly watching 73 Cialis commercials. Will soccer ever be as popular as football or baseball in this country? Probably not, and I can live with that. But I'll try to educate those who blindly stab at not liking something.

A side note - the World Cup final drew almost 17 million fans, on pace with games played during the NBA Finals and the World Series, which benefit from being at least 4 nights long. The 3rd place game on Saturday morning almost drew 10 million. While I'll agree to more watching NASCAR, I'll have to disagree about poker.