The State of the Redskins (MERGED)

JGisLordOfTheRings · 10-13-2006, 12:45 AM

i agree with takfas, green woulda been great here, much better than Brunell is doing now. Just to clarify, i am not a brunell hater. i think he is great, (at times) and other times I pray that somehow they give me a jersey and tell me to take a whack ( i played QB in highschool ya know!)...jason campbell is the future and todd collins is dirt. if he plays ahead of campbell, I'll shit. the preseaon game(s) he was in, he kept getting into the habit of throwing the ball towards the defensive line. DOH!

#56fanatic · 10-13-2006, 11:36 AM

I am glad to see some people thinking the same way i do. I do feel the front office tends to shaft players, sour on them, what ever the case may be. I do feel they messed up with Pierce, and Smoot. We let trotter go too early, he wasn't 100% recovered from the knee injury. I think he would have done well here in the attacking style of D we use. I think the dropped the ball on clark, but looking how Pearson played last year I dont think they could keep both. LaVar......not so sure. He was a fantastic player the first 4 or 5 years...no doubt about it. But the knee injury definately has slowed him down. And the learning the defense thing...well he never really go a chance to play in the defense for a full season to actually play in it to learn it. Now, he should have been more mentally prepared, but a lot of guys will tell you, the best way to learn is to be on the field. I think the biggest fault I have for this office is the Champ Baily fiasco.(I know I can't spell) I know he didn't really want to be here, but I think the tune may have changed had Joe sat and talked to him. I like Portis...HE IS THE MAN!! I wouldn't trade him for anything, but imagine if we had Champ on the outside in this defense. with springs or even Smoot still. We would be dominate. I always think running backs, productive running backs, can be had in the 2nd and 3rd of the draft. (kind of hard though when you dont have those picks, I know!) I always have a hard time thinking us giving up the best cover corner in the NFL, and a 2nd rounder. Shut down corners with Champs ability do not come often, but a productive 1200 yard back is pretty easy to find. Now, Portis is a true talent, definately one of the best in the NFL. Like I said, I wouldn't give him up for anything. But, if I had to choose a true shut down corner, the best in the NFL, or a running back. I take the corner especially with GW and his defense.

MTK · 10-13-2006, 11:40 AM

Trotter in this defense? Please. Williams knew from day one when he got here that Trotter wasn't the guy he wanted running his D. He didn't even let him hit the practice field before he was let go.

MLB in this system requires a guy with brains, and no offense to Trotter but he's not exactly known for his cerebral abilities on the field. He's a great LB in a downhill, attacking style of 'D'. He just attacks the ball which is great in Philly, but that's not what Williams demands from his MLB.

70Chip · 10-13-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Trotter in this defense? Please. Williams knew from day one when he got here that Trotter wasn't the guy he wanted running his D. He didn't even let him hit the practice field before he was let go.

MLB in this system requires a guy with brains, and no offense to Trotter but he's not exactly known for his cerebral abilities on the field. He's a great LB in a downhill, attacking style of 'D'. He just attacks the ball which is great in Philly, but that's not what Williams demands from his MLB.

Williams expects the MLB to be able to cover receivers down the field. Personally, I think this is asking a bit much. We've seen Lemar Marshall get burned a few times when he was one on one with a WR.

Trotter may be the worst linebacker in coverage in the league besides Lavar, so that would have definitely been a bad fit.

steveo395 · 10-13-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Williams expects the MLB to be able to cover receivers down the field. Personally, I think this is asking a bit much. We've seen Lemar Marshall get burned a few times when he was one on one with a WR.

Trotter may be the worst linebacker in coverage in the league besides Lavar, so that would have definitely been a bad fit.

marshall used to play CB and safety...he's one of the better cover linebackers in the league

rotahe39 · 10-13-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I loved Trent Green when he was here, wish he would have stayed. But he didn't leave because of a front office mistake. It was just poor timing that he was a free agent while we were transitioning from one owner to another. It wasn't anyone's fault.

Yeah..but cassedy was still our general manager through the cooke era to the beginning of the synder era....after not re-signing green...he went out and traded one of our first round draft picks to the vikings for brad johnson(remember we had two first rounders because Carolina signed our franchise player sean gilbert)...so i blame charlie cassedy

70Chip · 10-13-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotahe39

Yeah..but cassedy was still our general manager through the cooke era to the beginning of the synder era....after not re-signing green...he went out and traded one of our first round draft picks to the vikings for brad johnson(remember we had two first rounders because Carolina signed our franchise player sean gilbert)...so i blame charlie cassedy

Casserly claims he was hamstrung by the ownership thing. He says now that he did not have the authority he needed to re-sign Trent and that by the time he got the authority, Johnson was the best available alternative.

Of course, some of the ownership issues were the fault of Casserly himself. He was working very hard behind the scenes to derail the Millstein bid. I think he was hoping that the Cooke Foundation would fall back on John Cooke's offer once the Millsteins were rejected by the league owners. Who really knows? I think Green would have left for St. Louis to be with Dick Vermeil and Mike Martz no matter how much dough we offered him. I don't remember him being that upset that we didn't make a stronger play to sign him. It seems to me he got out as quickly as he could.

For those interested. Mr. Cooke's Will is here:

WashingtonPost.com: Jack Kent Cooke's Will: Index Page

chris36 · 10-15-2006, 05:33 PM

Ok I told you so, and I was wrong about Brunnel. He can lose a game for you and he sucks.

SmootSmack · 10-16-2006, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotahe39

Yeah..but cassedy was still our general manager through the cooke era to the beginning of the synder era....after not re-signing green...he went out and traded one of our first round draft picks to the vikings for brad johnson(remember we had two first rounders because Carolina signed our franchise player sean gilbert)...so i blame charlie cassedy

Who the hell is Charlie Cassedy? Let's suppose you meant Charlie Casserly. How would he sign anyone if there's no owner to write the check?

offiss · 10-16-2006, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Who the hell is Charlie Cassedy? Let's suppose you meant Charlie Casserly. How would he sign anyone if there's no owner to write the check?

He's butch's brother.

MTK · 10-16-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Casserly claims he was hamstrung by the ownership thing. He says now that he did not have the authority he needed to re-sign Trent and that by the time he got the authority, Johnson was the best available alternative.

Of course, some of the ownership issues were the fault of Casserly himself. He was working very hard behind the scenes to derail the Millstein bid. I think he was hoping that the Cooke Foundation would fall back on John Cooke's offer once the Millsteins were rejected by the league owners. Who really knows? I think Green would have left for St. Louis to be with Dick Vermeil and Mike Martz no matter how much dough we offered him. I don't remember him being that upset that we didn't make a stronger play to sign him. It seems to me he got out as quickly as he could.

For those interested. Mr. Cooke's Will is here:

WashingtonPost.com: Jack Kent Cooke's Will: Index Page

Thanks for shining some light on this. People really need to do some homework before blabbing on and on about who to blame.

The ownership thing really held up what we could do. Plus as you said, Green was eager to go back home to St. Louis to play and he took full advantage of the opportunity he was given. He was probably out of here no matter what. And it's not like Brad Johnson wasn't a good pickup, but we messed that thing all up and ran him out of town about 5 years too early.

skinsfan69 · 10-16-2006, 02:46 PM

You guys are forgetting Champ. He's balling his ass off. And we got the worst of the Denver deal. Portis is great but we also gave up a 2nd rounder along with Bailey in that deal. So potentially two starters for Portis. In my opinion I would have paid Bailey and kept the draft pick. And don't forget to blame Gibbs becasue he is part of the problem.

CPDAMAN · 10-22-2006, 10:45 PM

OK. What do we do now. Do they cut Archuletta? He would be a 10 million dollar hit against our cap. I just don't understand. Last year we were two games from the super bowl. All we were lacking was another wide reciever and a good corner. Now we need a completely new defense. We have got to get a real GM. One that unerstands talent. Joe Gibbs needs to leave personnel decisions to someone else and do what he does best, coach.

atomicnixon · 10-22-2006, 11:18 PM

Wow. I can vividly remember the 0-5 start when Gibbs first came here back in February of '80. He radically changed the Redskins over a bye week with a consistant power running game. Then Gibbs made 4 Super Bowl appearences, 3 of which he won. The brings me to todays loss. If the genious himself cannot turn around the ship, then what is the future of the Redskins? If Joe Gibbs can't fix it, then no other coach probably can. It seems since Jack Kent Cooke died the Redskins organization has been in a state of Emergency. It seems to bring back the winning ways to Washington you need to chop the head off the snake.

Beemnseven · 10-22-2006, 11:20 PM

Those were different teams, with WAY different players.

Prepare for the 'duplicate/unnecessary thread' smackdown, though.

10-13-2006, 12:45 AM	#76
JGisLordOfTheRings Playmaker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Richmond VA Age: 38 Posts: 2,583	Re: WHATS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE? Barber, Trotter, Smoot, Pierce, and Clark. i agree with takfas, green woulda been great here, much better than Brunell is doing now. Just to clarify, i am not a brunell hater. i think he is great, (at times) and other times I pray that somehow they give me a jersey and tell me to take a whack ( i played QB in highschool ya know!)...jason campbell is the future and todd collins is dirt. if he plays ahead of campbell, I'll shit. the preseaon game(s) he was in, he kept getting into the habit of throwing the ball towards the defensive line. DOH! __________________ The redskins pocket is like my love life.....nonexistent and disappointing. -OnceWeWereKings

10-13-2006, 11:36 AM	#77
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: WHATS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE? Barber, Trotter, Smoot, Pierce, and Clark. I am glad to see some people thinking the same way i do. I do feel the front office tends to shaft players, sour on them, what ever the case may be. I do feel they messed up with Pierce, and Smoot. We let trotter go too early, he wasn't 100% recovered from the knee injury. I think he would have done well here in the attacking style of D we use. I think the dropped the ball on clark, but looking how Pearson played last year I dont think they could keep both. LaVar......not so sure. He was a fantastic player the first 4 or 5 years...no doubt about it. But the knee injury definately has slowed him down. And the learning the defense thing...well he never really go a chance to play in the defense for a full season to actually play in it to learn it. Now, he should have been more mentally prepared, but a lot of guys will tell you, the best way to learn is to be on the field. I think the biggest fault I have for this office is the Champ Baily fiasco.(I know I can't spell) I know he didn't really want to be here, but I think the tune may have changed had Joe sat and talked to him. I like Portis...HE IS THE MAN!! I wouldn't trade him for anything, but imagine if we had Champ on the outside in this defense. with springs or even Smoot still. We would be dominate. I always think running backs, productive running backs, can be had in the 2nd and 3rd of the draft. (kind of hard though when you dont have those picks, I know!) I always have a hard time thinking us giving up the best cover corner in the NFL, and a 2nd rounder. Shut down corners with Champs ability do not come often, but a productive 1200 yard back is pretty easy to find. Now, Portis is a true talent, definately one of the best in the NFL. Like I said, I wouldn't give him up for anything. But, if I had to choose a true shut down corner, the best in the NFL, or a running back. I take the corner especially with GW and his defense.

10-13-2006, 11:40 AM	#78
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,576	Re: WHATS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE? Barber, Trotter, Smoot, Pierce, and Clark. Trotter in this defense? Please. Williams knew from day one when he got here that Trotter wasn't the guy he wanted running his D. He didn't even let him hit the practice field before he was let go. MLB in this system requires a guy with brains, and no offense to Trotter but he's not exactly known for his cerebral abilities on the field. He's a great LB in a downhill, attacking style of 'D'. He just attacks the ball which is great in Philly, but that's not what Williams demands from his MLB. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

10-15-2006, 05:33 PM	#83
chris36 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 183	Re: WHATS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE? Barber, Trotter, Smoot, Pierce, and Clark. Ok I told you so, and I was wrong about Brunnel. He can lose a game for you and he sucks.

10-16-2006, 02:46 PM	#87
skinsfan69 Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 17,343	Re: WHATS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE? Barber, Trotter, Smoot, Pierce, and Clark. You guys are forgetting Champ. He's balling his ass off. And we got the worst of the Denver deal. Portis is great but we also gave up a 2nd rounder along with Bailey in that deal. So potentially two starters for Portis. In my opinion I would have paid Bailey and kept the draft pick. And don't forget to blame Gibbs becasue he is part of the problem.

10-22-2006, 10:45 PM	#88
CPDAMAN Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 40	Re: WHATS WRONG WITH OUR FRONT OFFICE? Barber, Trotter, Smoot, Pierce, and Clark. OK. What do we do now. Do they cut Archuletta? He would be a 10 million dollar hit against our cap. I just don't understand. Last year we were two games from the super bowl. All we were lacking was another wide reciever and a good corner. Now we need a completely new defense. We have got to get a real GM. One that unerstands talent. Joe Gibbs needs to leave personnel decisions to someone else and do what he does best, coach.

10-22-2006, 11:18 PM	#89
atomicnixon Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2006 Age: 39 Posts: 174	The Shape of the Redskins Wow. I can vividly remember the 0-5 start when Gibbs first came here back in February of '80. He radically changed the Redskins over a bye week with a consistant power running game. Then Gibbs made 4 Super Bowl appearences, 3 of which he won. The brings me to todays loss. If the genious himself cannot turn around the ship, then what is the future of the Redskins? If Joe Gibbs can't fix it, then no other coach probably can. It seems since Jack Kent Cooke died the Redskins organization has been in a state of Emergency. It seems to bring back the winning ways to Washington you need to chop the head off the snake.

10-22-2006, 11:20 PM	#90
Beemnseven Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 50 Posts: 5,311	Re: The Shape of the Redskins Those were different teams, with WAY different players. Prepare for the 'duplicate/unnecessary thread' smackdown, though.

The State of the Redskins (MERGED)

Locker Room Main Forum